1
00:00:03,590 --> 00:00:01,510
this is a conversation with the

2
00:00:07,269 --> 00:00:03,600
inimitable avi loeb

3
00:00:09,509 --> 00:00:07,279
we talk about well i was struggling

4
00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:09,519
what can i talk to avi about that he

5
00:00:11,270 --> 00:00:10,960
hasn't covered before because he's been

6
00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,280
on

7
00:00:14,470 --> 00:00:13,920
over 400 podcasts he tends to give the

8
00:00:18,150 --> 00:00:14,480
same

9
00:00:19,750 --> 00:00:18,160
it took quite some time but

10
00:00:21,269 --> 00:00:19,760
along with the community we managed to

11
00:00:21,990 --> 00:00:21,279
conceive of questions that he hasn't

12
00:00:24,390 --> 00:00:22,000
been asked

13
00:00:26,230 --> 00:00:24,400
at least not in the public forum such as

14
00:00:28,390 --> 00:00:26,240
what are his opinions on bob lazar

15
00:00:30,070 --> 00:00:28,400
morality purpose a finality to the

16
00:00:32,069 --> 00:00:30,080
universe the beginning of the universe

17
00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:32,079
some technical questions about manifolds

18
00:00:35,990 --> 00:00:33,760
and the lower bound on the mass of

19
00:00:37,510 --> 00:00:36,000
elementary particles and astrophysical

20
00:00:39,350 --> 00:00:37,520
data god

21
00:00:41,190 --> 00:00:39,360
quite a few topics if you'd like to see

22
00:00:42,790 --> 00:00:41,200
more conversations like this or hear

23
00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:42,800
more conversations like this then please

24
00:00:46,069 --> 00:00:43,600
consider

25
00:00:47,950 --> 00:00:46,079
supporting donating whatever you would

26
00:00:50,470 --> 00:00:47,960
like at

27
00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:50,480
patreon.com literally every single

28
00:00:53,990 --> 00:00:52,320
one of the patrons helps a tremendous

29
00:00:55,590 --> 00:00:54,000
tremendous tremendous amount

30
00:00:57,510 --> 00:00:55,600
thank you so much for all the people who

31
00:00:59,830 --> 00:00:57,520
have continued to donate

32
00:01:01,510 --> 00:00:59,840
and thank you for those of you who are

33
00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:01,520
going to just so you know soon i'll be

34
00:01:04,149 --> 00:01:03,280
hosting a three-way conversation between

35
00:01:06,550 --> 00:01:04,159
myself

36
00:01:08,230 --> 00:01:06,560
donald hoffman and bernardo castro it

37
00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:08,240
may be a four-way conversation

38
00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:10,560
if we can get jonathan verveiki in as

39
00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:11,680
well although

40
00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:14,080
i'm unsure if he's available however

41
00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:15,360
it's at least going to be bernardo

42
00:01:17,910 --> 00:01:15,920
castro

43
00:01:19,990 --> 00:01:17,920
and donald hoffman that's coming shortly

44
00:01:21,510 --> 00:01:20,000
we're looking to hit 50 patrons and then

45
00:01:23,670 --> 00:01:21,520
i'll be able to conduct that

46
00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:23,680
thank you thank you so much i appreciate

47
00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:29,910
i want to know how much did writing your

48
00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:31,680
book or writing books in general or

49
00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:33,600
articles how much does that clarify your

50
00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:34,960
thinking

51
00:01:41,670 --> 00:01:37,280
oh the main purpose for writing the book

52
00:01:43,670 --> 00:01:41,680
as i told the publisher was to

53
00:01:44,870 --> 00:01:43,680
broadcast that excitement that we can

54
00:01:46,950 --> 00:01:44,880
have in science

55
00:01:48,469 --> 00:01:46,960
discovering important things that do

56
00:01:50,149 --> 00:01:48,479
affect our daily lives

57
00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:50,159
and i told the publisher that if one

58
00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:51,920
person around the world will decide to

59
00:01:57,350 --> 00:01:54,240
become a scientist after reading my book

60
00:01:59,429 --> 00:01:57,360
i will be satisfied and as it turns out

61
00:02:00,950 --> 00:01:59,439
a few a few weeks ago i got an email

62
00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:00,960
from malawi

63
00:02:04,550 --> 00:02:03,600
from a woman who wrote the the book is

64
00:02:06,789 --> 00:02:04,560
great

65
00:02:09,270 --> 00:02:06,799
and i'm thinking of becoming an

66
00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:09,280
astronomer so i told her the story about

67
00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:11,440
the publisher and i asked her are you

68
00:02:14,470 --> 00:02:13,280
the one are you that person that will

69
00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:14,480
become a scientist

70
00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:17,120
thanks to reading my book and she said

71
00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:18,160
maybe

72
00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:21,200
so i invited her to apply

73
00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:23,280
to graduate school and at harvard in

74
00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:24,400
astronomy

75
00:02:28,070 --> 00:02:26,319
and i very much hope that she will do so

76
00:02:30,309 --> 00:02:28,080
and then i can work with her

77
00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:30,319
uh there was another undergraduate

78
00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:31,120
student from

79
00:02:34,630 --> 00:02:33,040
colombia that they wrote to me and said

80
00:02:37,509 --> 00:02:34,640
the reading about your work

81
00:02:38,070 --> 00:02:37,519
changed my life and so i get about a

82
00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:38,080
dozen

83
00:02:45,190 --> 00:02:42,160
emails of this type every day now and

84
00:02:45,750 --> 00:02:45,200
i am really satisfied about writing my

85
00:02:49,509 --> 00:02:45,760
book

86
00:02:52,390 --> 00:02:49,519
it wasn't so much for me to clarify

87
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,400
my thinking as to communicate my

88
00:02:57,030 --> 00:02:54,560
excitement about doing science and

89
00:02:58,869 --> 00:02:57,040
you know the fact that we can maintain

90
00:03:00,390 --> 00:02:58,879
our childhood curiosity we can be

91
00:03:03,190 --> 00:03:00,400
excited about doing it

92
00:03:05,190 --> 00:03:03,200
it's not a job like being in the

93
00:03:07,589 --> 00:03:05,200
business world the commercial world

94
00:03:08,630 --> 00:03:07,599
where you get paid and then you use the

95
00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:08,640
money for what you

96
00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:11,440
really enjoy uh in fact you know i would

97
00:03:13,990 --> 00:03:13,280
enjoy doing what i'm doing irrespective

98
00:03:17,750 --> 00:03:14,000
whether i get

99
00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:17,760
money for it there were no problems that

100
00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:18,000
you

101
00:03:24,390 --> 00:03:23,040
elaborate it or cultivate it or

102
00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:24,400
disambiguate it

103
00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:26,000
it was already somewhat formed in your

104
00:03:31,509 --> 00:03:28,080
mind now you just got to put it on paper

105
00:03:32,309 --> 00:03:31,519
yeah i mean it's all in my my head to

106
00:03:34,229 --> 00:03:32,319
start with

107
00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:34,239
and it's just a question of putting it

108
00:03:38,309 --> 00:03:35,760
in a way that is compelling

109
00:03:40,710 --> 00:03:38,319
and you know it's very much the same

110
00:03:42,630 --> 00:03:40,720
when i do my science very often someone

111
00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:42,640
comes to my office and says

112
00:03:46,470 --> 00:03:44,720
this is what i'm working on sort of

113
00:03:48,869 --> 00:03:46,480
immediately i come up with

114
00:03:49,509 --> 00:03:48,879
suggestions for ideas and how to proceed

115
00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:49,519
and

116
00:03:54,869 --> 00:03:52,640
very often that person says oh wow i

117
00:03:57,030 --> 00:03:54,879
how did you come up with that i i didn't

118
00:03:59,110 --> 00:03:57,040
really think about it and

119
00:04:00,710 --> 00:03:59,120
it's not as if it takes me a great

120
00:04:04,070 --> 00:04:00,720
effort to do that it's sort of

121
00:04:07,110 --> 00:04:04,080
in my head to start with and i'm just

122
00:04:10,630 --> 00:04:07,120
explaining it and there is not much

123
00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:10,640
distance between putting it on paper and

124
00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:13,680
having it in my head the only difference

125
00:04:18,949 --> 00:04:14,480
is

126
00:04:19,509 --> 00:04:18,959
okay talking about communicating ideas

127
00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:19,519
to

128
00:04:22,950 --> 00:04:21,280
other scientists i recall you saying

129
00:04:26,150 --> 00:04:22,960
that when you were in your younger years

130
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:26,160
you would speak about ideas and then

131
00:04:29,189 --> 00:04:27,600
they would get rebuffed but then someone

132
00:04:31,350 --> 00:04:29,199
who is on the periphery listening in

133
00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:31,360
would then advance those ideas and maybe

134
00:04:34,870 --> 00:04:33,120
they would be advanced to the level of

135
00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:34,880
becoming new fields in physics or

136
00:04:40,870 --> 00:04:39,040
insights or or inventions and so on

137
00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:40,880
can you give me some examples of that

138
00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:42,080
yeah it happened several

139
00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:44,800
times and you know early on in my career

140
00:04:54,070 --> 00:04:45,440
i

141
00:04:57,270 --> 00:04:54,080
proposed before

142
00:04:59,350 --> 00:04:57,280
i would advocate for it and uh very

143
00:05:02,950 --> 00:04:59,360
often i was disappointed because

144
00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:02,960
i'll give you an example um 21 years ago

145
00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:04,240
i

146
00:05:17,749 --> 00:05:15,680
and the the the depth

147
00:05:19,749 --> 00:05:17,759
of the gravitational potential well that

148
00:05:22,469 --> 00:05:19,759
they're embedded in so in other words

149
00:05:24,469 --> 00:05:22,479
if black holes grow they behave like

150
00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:24,479
kids you know they

151
00:05:29,590 --> 00:05:27,280
eat as much food as they can from the

152
00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:29,600
table until they become too energetic

153
00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:31,840
and then they throw off the food from

154
00:05:35,590 --> 00:05:32,960
the table and

155
00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:35,600
so if that's the case then black holes

156
00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:36,240
would grow

157
00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:39,600
up to a certain mass at which point they

158
00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:41,280
release so much energy they become so

159
00:05:46,070 --> 00:05:43,520
energetic that they clean off

160
00:05:47,670 --> 00:05:46,080
the food that allows them to continue to

161
00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:47,680
grow and

162
00:05:52,550 --> 00:05:50,320
so i suggested let's check if black hole

163
00:05:54,950 --> 00:05:52,560
masses are correlated with

164
00:05:56,870 --> 00:05:54,960
the depth of the gravitational potential

165
00:05:59,350 --> 00:05:56,880
well of the galaxy that hosts them

166
00:06:01,350 --> 00:05:59,360
and the way to measure that is by the

167
00:06:02,469 --> 00:06:01,360
speed by which stars are moving within

168
00:06:04,870 --> 00:06:02,479
that galaxy

169
00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:04,880
near the core of the galaxy and when i

170
00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:06,400
suggest that people said no

171
00:06:10,629 --> 00:06:08,560
that's not interesting it's it's

172
00:06:11,110 --> 00:06:10,639
probably there is nothing interesting in

173
00:06:14,309 --> 00:06:11,120
that

174
00:06:14,950 --> 00:06:14,319
relation and uh i remember mentioning it

175
00:06:17,029 --> 00:06:14,960
at the

176
00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:17,039
conference and it was completely

177
00:06:20,309 --> 00:06:18,240
rebuffed and then

178
00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:20,319
we had a junior faculty search at the

179
00:06:23,350 --> 00:06:21,680
astronomy department and

180
00:06:25,909 --> 00:06:23,360
as it happens in the short list there

181
00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:25,919
were two people working exactly on

182
00:06:29,270 --> 00:06:28,000
on the central black holes in galaxies

183
00:06:30,309 --> 00:06:29,280
and i suggested to both of them

184
00:06:33,029 --> 00:06:30,319
independently

185
00:06:35,590 --> 00:06:33,039
to check that then uh since they were

186
00:06:36,950 --> 00:06:35,600
young people they decided to do that and

187
00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:36,960
they had all the data

188
00:06:41,110 --> 00:06:38,560
in principle i could have done it as

189
00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:41,120
well anyway they did it and each of them

190
00:06:43,670 --> 00:06:43,039
got so excited a few months later they

191
00:06:45,909 --> 00:06:43,680
said

192
00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:45,919
wow there is a very tight correlation

193
00:06:50,390 --> 00:06:47,440
between the black hole mass and

194
00:06:52,309 --> 00:06:50,400
the characteristic speed of stars in in

195
00:06:55,430 --> 00:06:52,319
the galaxy that hosts it

196
00:06:57,350 --> 00:06:55,440
uh and then they decided to publish and

197
00:06:58,550 --> 00:06:57,360
they published exactly the same time the

198
00:07:00,550 --> 00:06:58,560
two teams

199
00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:00,560
and then they started fighting with each

200
00:07:04,469 --> 00:07:02,080
other for the credit because it becomes

201
00:07:07,670 --> 00:07:04,479
the hot the hottest thing in the field

202
00:07:09,670 --> 00:07:07,680
and then for for a decade it became the

203
00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:09,680
thing that everyone talks about and

204
00:07:14,230 --> 00:07:12,160
that was the first indication and then a

205
00:07:17,589 --> 00:07:14,240
couple of years later i

206
00:07:19,110 --> 00:07:17,599
uh suggested the to call i had a

207
00:07:21,110 --> 00:07:19,120
sabbatical

208
00:07:23,909 --> 00:07:21,120
at princeton and i suggested to a few

209
00:07:26,390 --> 00:07:23,919
people that were experts in

210
00:07:27,909 --> 00:07:26,400
black holes and and the info of gas onto

211
00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:27,919
black holes i suggested

212
00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:29,680
uh perhaps we should calculate what

213
00:07:33,749 --> 00:07:31,840
happens when there is a hot spot a

214
00:07:35,589 --> 00:07:33,759
region that is very bright orbiting a

215
00:07:37,909 --> 00:07:35,599
black hole very closely

216
00:07:39,990 --> 00:07:37,919
so that you can perhaps map the space

217
00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:40,000
and time around the black hole this way

218
00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:41,680
and they completely dismissed it and

219
00:07:45,670 --> 00:07:43,280
said well there would never be a hot

220
00:07:48,629 --> 00:07:45,680
spot that maintains its integrity that

221
00:07:49,270 --> 00:07:48,639
this is not worth doing uh and so i came

222
00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:49,280
back to

223
00:07:52,790 --> 00:07:51,120
to harvard after the sabbatical and i

224
00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:52,800
suggested it to a postdoc

225
00:07:55,909 --> 00:07:54,560
of mine and we did the calculation we

226
00:07:59,510 --> 00:07:55,919
wrote a few papers

227
00:08:00,950 --> 00:07:59,520
and then just a year and a half ago two

228
00:08:03,830 --> 00:08:00,960
years ago

229
00:08:04,869 --> 00:08:03,840
a group in germany uh discovered exactly

230
00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:04,879
that phenomena

231
00:08:09,589 --> 00:08:08,400
they found a hot spot moving around

232
00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:09,599
the black hole at the center of the

233
00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:12,160
milky way galaxy just in the way that we

234
00:08:17,589 --> 00:08:15,680
that i envisioned and they it was

235
00:08:18,950 --> 00:08:17,599
the hotspot was orbiting very close to

236
00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:18,960
the black hole and

237
00:08:24,469 --> 00:08:22,800
so once again um and then uh

238
00:08:26,790 --> 00:08:24,479
i can give you many more examples you

239
00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:26,800
know i gave for example a lecture on

240
00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:28,960
gravitational wave astrophysics which is

241
00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:30,160
a new way of

242
00:08:33,990 --> 00:08:32,240
doing astrophysics astrophysics

243
00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:34,000
traditionally astronomy was based on

244
00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:35,680
light collecting light

245
00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:37,760
but then according to einstein's theory

246
00:08:41,509 --> 00:08:39,760
of gravity when you have massive

247
00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:41,519
objects like black holes that are very

248
00:08:45,030 --> 00:08:44,080
compact they distort space and time

249
00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:45,040
around them and

250
00:08:48,070 --> 00:08:47,200
when they move close to each other they

251
00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:48,080
can send out

252
00:08:52,949 --> 00:08:49,680
waves and these are called gravitational

253
00:08:55,829 --> 00:08:52,959
waves and at the time it was 2013

254
00:08:57,269 --> 00:08:55,839
i thought it's an important subject for

255
00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:57,279
the coming years and

256
00:09:00,870 --> 00:08:59,120
i decided to give a lecture about it in

257
00:09:03,670 --> 00:09:00,880
a winter school for students

258
00:09:04,070 --> 00:09:03,680
and then 10 minutes into my talk one of

259
00:09:07,110 --> 00:09:04,080
the

260
00:09:09,430 --> 00:09:07,120
still

261
00:09:11,030 --> 00:09:09,440
is 20 years younger than me so it has

262
00:09:14,070 --> 00:09:11,040
nothing to do with age

263
00:09:17,110 --> 00:09:14,080
but he he's very conservative he's

264
00:09:18,150 --> 00:09:17,120
how long ago was this this was 2013

265
00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:18,160
january

266
00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:22,000
and he stood up and said

267
00:09:25,829 --> 00:09:23,760
why are you wasting the time of these

268
00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:25,839
graduate students on a subject that will

269
00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:27,760
clearly not be important during their

270
00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:29,120
lifetime

271
00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:32,000
for their careers uh and just two years

272
00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:33,279
later that's allowed in front of

273
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:33,920
everyone

274
00:09:36,949 --> 00:09:36,000
in front of it yeah that's on video you

275
00:09:40,389 --> 00:09:36,959
can we can

276
00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:40,399
find it uh and you know he was uh

277
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,440
much younger than i am working on

278
00:09:47,509 --> 00:09:45,839
uh star formation and so forth a

279
00:09:50,230 --> 00:09:47,519
conservative

280
00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:50,240
astronomer so to speak but young

281
00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:51,360
relatively young

282
00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:53,760
and so um two years later the ligo

283
00:09:58,630 --> 00:09:55,360
collaboration announced

284
00:10:03,269 --> 00:09:58,640
or discovered the announcement came

285
00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:03,279
uh six months later but then you know in

286
00:10:08,949 --> 00:10:07,120
in august 2015 it was discovered that

287
00:10:10,790 --> 00:10:08,959
there was an event a gravitational wave

288
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:10,800
event discovered by lago and that

289
00:10:15,509 --> 00:10:13,600
ushered a new era in astrophysics where

290
00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:15,519
gravitational waves are being used to

291
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:16,640
discover

292
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:18,720
objects that otherwise do not emit any

293
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:20,320
light black holes that

294
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:23,680
come together uh and the nobel prize was

295
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:26,320
awarded for that a few years ago

296
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:28,880
and clearly you know these the same

297
00:10:33,509 --> 00:10:31,200
students that were in the audience

298
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:33,519
were still doing their phds where this

299
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:35,120
discovery was made

300
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:37,839
and so saying why are you wasting the

301
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:39,440
time of these students on a subject that

302
00:10:42,470 --> 00:10:40,880
would never be important was clearly

303
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,480
invalid

304
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:44,480
and you know it happened to me many

305
00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:46,240
times and at some point like five years

306
00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:47,839
ago i said to myself

307
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:50,079
the hell with it i i don't need

308
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:51,839
confirmation from other people you know

309
00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:52,720
it's just

310
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:54,560
well it makes you know it makes me

311
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:55,920
depressed that to to

312
00:11:01,829 --> 00:10:59,519
listen to the criticism and then realize

313
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:01,839
that the this is the the you know the

314
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:03,839
hottest thing in in in the field later

315
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:05,680
on a few years later so

316
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,920
how is that possible well it is possible

317
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:09,360
because uh

318
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:11,279
people are not do not have the vision

319
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,360
about the future and they're very

320
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:15,839
they they prefer to dismiss a new you

321
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,399
know

322
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:19,519
forth just

323
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:20,880
because it takes them out of their

324
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,320
comfort zone they're used to doing

325
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:24,079
business as usual and

326
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:26,800
and so five years ago as or so i decided

327
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,200
to

328
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:29,600
basically not listen and just do what i

329
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:31,760
think is right based on

330
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:34,959
my inner compass and you can see that

331
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:35,440
that

332
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:39,360
nowadays you know as a young

333
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:41,279
scientist i would never be able to

334
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,680
sustain the pressure the the

335
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:45,600
social pressure that exists around me

336
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,200
right now but um

337
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,839
i'm sort of immune to it by now what

338
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:51,440
social pressure exists around you right

339
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:52,560
now what are you referring to

340
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:55,360
also why did it take you i don't know

341
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,320
how old you are

342
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:58,880
but why did it take you 59. uh so yeah

343
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,680
it takes me

344
00:12:03,829 --> 00:12:01,920
54. yeah why did it take you until

345
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:03,839
you're 54. i imagine that

346
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:05,040
if this occurred to you when you were in

347
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:07,200
your late 20s maybe three times then by

348
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:09,200
the time you're 33 or 35 you would say

349
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:10,000
okay to heck

350
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:12,000
with it forget what other people think

351
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:14,000
well maybe i'm a slow learner maybe i'm

352
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:14,560
also

353
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:16,959
um you know i do care about what people

354
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:19,120
i did care about what people think early

355
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,160
on and

356
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,720
you have to understand the entire um

357
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:24,240
structure of academia

358
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:27,040
uh relies on other people evaluating

359
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:28,800
your you throughout

360
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,920
the various stages in order to get

361
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,440
tenure you need a

362
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:35,279
tenure committee to recommend and that

363
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:36,959
is based on letters that are obtained

364
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:38,880
from the community at large so

365
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:41,600
you need to dance to the music of a lot

366
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:42,160
of people

367
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,360
in order to be sort of tenured

368
00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:47,760
uh and then the same is true about

369
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:48,800
getting grants

370
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:51,279
grant support is you know the selection

371
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:52,000
committee

372
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:55,040
that are

373
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,639
mainstream and they have their own

374
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:58,160
agenda and

375
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:01,360
they don't welcome innovation as much

376
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:04,320
uh and to me it's still a miracle that

377
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:06,240
the ligo experiment was funded in the

378
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:08,320
first place i was told by

379
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:10,160
uh important people at the national

380
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:12,079
science foundation that

381
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:15,680
nowadays at present time the likelihood

382
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:17,279
of it being funded would have been very

383
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:18,399
small it was

384
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:21,200
the vision of a few people a couple of

385
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:23,040
decades ago that pushed it through

386
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:25,279
um it's really hard to imagine that

387
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,399
nowadays

388
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:28,320
uh the national science foundation or

389
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:30,880
other federal agencies would

390
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:33,440
receive an advice from the scientific

391
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:34,000
community

392
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:37,279
to embark on a risky project of this

393
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,680
type

394
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,440
and it was not at all clear that it will

395
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:41,680
reach the sensitivity necessary

396
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:43,920
and so you know you're you're dependent

397
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:46,560
throughout your career on many people

398
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:50,399
that will approve uh your your agenda

399
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,959
and

400
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:52,959
uh as a result you develop the mentality

401
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:54,000
of um

402
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,839
listening and and paying attention and

403
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:57,839
not not deviating too much from the

404
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:58,320
beaten

405
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:01,519
path and then that that is

406
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:04,079
quite common what is not common is

407
00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:05,519
someone like me that

408
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:08,000
reaches leadership positions you know i

409
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,720
i've been

410
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:10,079
chair of the astronomy department at

411
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:11,839
harvard for nine years and

412
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,560
i've chaired many important committees

413
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:16,240
someone at that level often

414
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:19,680
um you know behaves

415
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:23,199
even more as a conformist because

416
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:26,240
uh because of political consideration

417
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:28,480
um you have to understand it's just like

418
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:29,760
looking at the

419
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:32,000
seashells on the beach you know when a

420
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,199
seashell

421
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,440
first arrives at the beach it looks

422
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:37,680
special and unique it has special color

423
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,480
special shape but as time goes on you

424
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:42,320
know the waves

425
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,959
rub seashells against each other and

426
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,320
then they start

427
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,880
to lose their identity and they start to

428
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,000
look like each other

429
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,120
and eventually you end up with sea sand

430
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,040
basically pieces of seashells that are

431
00:15:00,870 --> 00:14:58,320
indistinguishable from each other

432
00:15:01,509 --> 00:15:00,880
and that's what happens in academia you

433
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:01,519
know each

434
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:03,920
in the each individual researcher starts

435
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,040
different

436
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,760
but then you rub against many others and

437
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,839
you end up being indistinguishable from

438
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:11,360
them

439
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,800
okay when i hear that here's what i'm

440
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:15,040
thinking there's this it's not a quote

441
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:16,720
but it's a story from steve jobs and he

442
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:17,199
said

443
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,720
almost the opposite so there it's

444
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,480
obviously a happy middle he said

445
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:22,000
what you want to do is take people who

446
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,760
are like rocks that are unpolished

447
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:25,279
and then put them into a rock tumbler

448
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:26,800
because afterwards they come out like

449
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:29,759
diamonds so you want to take intelligent

450
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,000
smart people and have them argue

451
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,160
i can see this well as long as the

452
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:36,160
argument is accepted you know as long as

453
00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:37,040
it's a la

454
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:39,920
so if you create an environment where

455
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:40,639
people are

456
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:42,480
encouraged to challenge each other to

457
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:45,120
come up with original ideas

458
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:48,480
to be different then that is

459
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:50,800
i completely agree that that experience

460
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:51,600
of

461
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:55,440
argument and exchanges is helpful but

462
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:58,160
but if on the other hand you create an

463
00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:59,360
environment where

464
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:02,079
you know the dominant view where there

465
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:02,560
is

466
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:05,600
a group thing where the uh the

467
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:09,199
folklore of a field dominates and anyone

468
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:10,800
that suggests something different is

469
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,320
pushed aside

470
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:13,839
that is bad and that's what i was

471
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:15,680
referring to uh-huh

472
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:17,759
uh-huh so if it's geared toward

473
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,720
constructing

474
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,120
and also if it's geared toward some goal

475
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,959
yeah if you look for example

476
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:24,880
if you look for example i mean the ideal

477
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:27,519
example is the corridor of bellaps

478
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,560
you know bellaps was established by a

479
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:31,839
corporation

480
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,959
that has a profit in mind but then in

481
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,959
that corridor they put very creative

482
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:38,000
people

483
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,920
uh and you know some of them ended up

484
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:41,360
winning the nobel prize there were lots

485
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,880
of inventions that came out of the

486
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:44,639
corridor of bellaps

487
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,240
and so putting a lot of creative people

488
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:50,240
in the same environment and allowing

489
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,360
them

490
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,480
to innovate

491
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:56,720
that is the right right right and so i

492
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:58,720
in that sense i would agree with jobs

493
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:59,519
that

494
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:01,040
you know putting them next to each other

495
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:02,639
is beneficial

496
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:05,280
but if you on the other hand you put

497
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:06,799
people together and exert

498
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:09,199
pressure so that you know they do not

499
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,400
deviate

500
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:12,000
from what everyone else is thinking

501
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,839
that's bad

502
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,439
so right now the incentives are geared

503
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,880
towards self-preservation or

504
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:19,280
idea preservation yeah and what can be

505
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:20,240
done to fix this

506
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:21,439
one of the questions that i had from the

507
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:22,799
audience was let's imagine there are

508
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,919
some wacky ideas

509
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:25,839
obviously you don't want to let in just

510
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,919
any idea there is something

511
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,760
to be said about being too fringe but

512
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:31,120
then there is something to be said about

513
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:32,000
having permeable

514
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:35,120
walls right how do you fix this system

515
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:36,080
quote unquote

516
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:39,120
well very very very easily um you

517
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:41,679
basically evaluate each idea on its

518
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:42,320
merit

519
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:46,240
um so the the point is you are not

520
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:48,880
evaluating the person that mentioned

521
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:49,440
that

522
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:52,720
you you're not uh using

523
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,039
uh you know uh the personal traits as a

524
00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:00,000
a way of dismissing an idea which is

525
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,880
very often done

526
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,799
very often the attacks are personal if

527
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:04,880
you if you see in politics it's very

528
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:05,600
common

529
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:07,360
in science it should not be the case in

530
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:09,039
science we should argue about the ideas

531
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,600
about

532
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,200
and if an idea doesn't make sense you

533
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:12,880
can easily prove that

534
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:15,679
um so let me give you a counter you know

535
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:17,039
like an example

536
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:20,160
that comes from the opposite side so um

537
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:23,600
for example with respect to a muammua um

538
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,080
i suggested that it may be of artificial

539
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,559
origin as a possibility and that was

540
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,799
that encountered a lot of opposition now

541
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,160
the latest

542
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:35,280
alternative to that was that maybe it so

543
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:38,320
maybe it is a nitrogen iceberg that was

544
00:18:41,909 --> 00:18:39,520
a suggestion and

545
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:41,919
uh for you can find nitrogen pure

546
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,640
nitrogen

547
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:45,200
as you need in this case uh in order to

548
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:46,559
explain the fact we haven't seen a

549
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,000
cometary tail around the

550
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,720
moa and also that it's flat and that is

551
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,240
it was pushed from the

552
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,240
away from the sun all of these facts

553
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,400
will come into uh

554
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:58,320
we could be explained if it was made of

555
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,520
pure nitrogen and

556
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:01,360
pure nitrogen for example exists on the

557
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,640
surface of pluto

558
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:04,880
so the suggestion was let's imagine a

559
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,360
lot of pluto's around other stars

560
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:10,160
and you chip off their surface with a

561
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,480
high efficiency more than ten percent

562
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:14,960
uh of all the pluto's are being chipped

563
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,080
off the

564
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,480
and then you send out these rocks and

565
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,240
one of them is

566
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:23,440
and okay i said they're fine

567
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,799
and then i wrote a paper just a week and

568
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:28,000
a half ago saying

569
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:30,080
well if you imagine that to be the case

570
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:31,440
and it you end up

571
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:35,039
needing more mass than you have in stars

572
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:36,640
in the milky way galaxy

573
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:39,039
by a factor of a hundred actually turns

574
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:39,919
out

575
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:42,640
uh and so um what do you mean by that

576
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,919
sorry what do you mean by that and

577
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,919
are you referring to the work by desk

578
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:47,679
and jackson i believe

579
00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:51,039
dash and jackson yes exactly um

580
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:53,679
and the reason for that is you know the

581
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:54,559
the layer

582
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:57,360
of pure nitrogen on the surface of pluto

583
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:58,000
is

584
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,039
relatively thin uh so it just makes

585
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:03,360
a few percent of the mass of pluto most

586
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:04,799
of most of the mass

587
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:08,880
is uh you know in in in rock and water

588
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:12,480
ice and so forth um so

589
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:15,679
you lose by that and then

590
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:17,919
so for every bit of nitrogen that you

591
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,320
produce you need much more rock and and

592
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:23,120
water ice to exist and then on top of

593
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,840
that you need

594
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:26,080
hydrogen and helium that are much more

595
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:27,760
abundant than rock so if you do that

596
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,360
just a must budget

597
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:32,400
how much mass do you need to process in

598
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,520
order to make

599
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,760
enough objects so that you would see one

600
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,360
of them

601
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,440
and we know that you need to produce a

602
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:41,200
certain you know

603
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,679
uh number of such objects per unit

604
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:45,280
volume so that we would see one of them

605
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:46,960
coming within a few years of

606
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,880
the time that we were observing the sky

607
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:50,480
you know with pan stars

608
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,919
so basically if you just go through the

609
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:53,280
math which is really simple

610
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,720
straightforward

611
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,880
and also they required that it would

612
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:58,559
then you know

613
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,799
this object would be just half a billion

614
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,559
years old because otherwise it

615
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:05,039
would get completely evaporated so if

616
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:06,480
you put all of these considerations

617
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,760
together you find that

618
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,840
you need a hundred times more mass than

619
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,679
you have available in stars

620
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,280
so even if you take all the mass in

621
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:15,200
stars multiply by a hundred only then

622
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:16,640
you will have enough

623
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:20,400
surface layers of exoplutos

624
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:24,480
or or pluto like planets around other

625
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:27,440
stars to make enough objects like a momo

626
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:30,159
so that you would see one of them during

627
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:33,200
that mode of observations and then so to

628
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:35,120
me it makes this scenario very unlikely

629
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:35,600
so

630
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,000
i just mentioned that you know as an

631
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:40,400
example of how a scientific debate

632
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:43,360
should should go uh someone proposes an

633
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:44,080
idea

634
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:47,360
merit and you know if they

635
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,039
if you do a calculation that shows that

636
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,200
something is problematic with that

637
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:53,280
you know that that is a a reason for

638
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,320
concern and

639
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:57,120
for working on something else so that is

640
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,000
a scientific debate

641
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:00,159
on the other hand if someone goes to

642
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:02,320
twitter and says something negative

643
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:02,880
about

644
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:06,400
a paper and just doesn't even read it

645
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:08,400
or or says something negative about a

646
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,600
person

647
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,520
without referring to the details of the

648
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,200
idea or says something negative about

649
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,960
the reference list of a paper rather

650
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,799
than the content of the paper

651
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,960
you know that that is not a viable

652
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:20,720
scientific discussion so

653
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:24,480
my point is we can maintain a high level

654
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,280
of integrity in the scientific process

655
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:29,360
if we just refer to the ideas rather

656
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:29,919
than

657
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:32,320
attack people personally and that's the

658
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:33,919
way we should proceed and

659
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:36,480
you know most of the time in science you

660
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:38,000
have to understand most of the time

661
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:39,919
things are uncertain we just don't have

662
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,440
enough evidence

663
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,280
and therefore we should contemplate

664
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,360
possibilities and that's legitimate

665
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:47,200
that's part of the scientific process

666
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:50,240
you can't skip that step you can't say

667
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,400
i know the answer and i don't want to

668
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,159
dismiss other possibilities

669
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,000
even though there is not enough evidence

670
00:23:03,350 --> 00:22:58,880
for your answer to be right

671
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:03,360
so i think it's good to have

672
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:05,440
ideas on the table that are viable

673
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,039
scientifically

674
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:09,679
because then we are exploring exploring

675
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:10,799
all possibilities and

676
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,799
by the way imagination is extremely

677
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,919
important because

678
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:15,600
we can't just always restrict our

679
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:17,200
attention to things that we know from

680
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,240
the past

681
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:20,240
we will never discover new things that

682
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,600
way

683
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:23,600
what's jackson's and dash's response to

684
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:25,280
this i don't know

685
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:28,080
haven't i all i have seen are personal

686
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,880
attacks

687
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:30,480
uh not necessarily from them but from

688
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:32,000
other people

689
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,600
and is that the social pressure that you

690
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:35,520
were referring to before that previously

691
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:36,480
let's say five years

692
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,000
younger you wouldn't have been able to

693
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:40,240
withstand that's a low level you know

694
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:40,559
that

695
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:43,360
what you find on on social media which i

696
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,880
you know i don't have any account on

697
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:46,720
social media so i'm less exposed to that

698
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:47,200
but

699
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:49,039
and i'm very grateful for that um you

700
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:50,240
know i decided

701
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:52,480
not to have any account when i married

702
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,799
my wife she asked me not to do that

703
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:57,279
and so i uh agreed not to do that and

704
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,400
i'm and that was

705
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:00,720
more than 20 years ago and i'm very glad

706
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:02,400
that i i don't have an account on social

707
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:03,600
media because

708
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,559
um then i can think creatively and not

709
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:08,400
be affected i mean of course i'm losing

710
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,600
on some

711
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:11,600
bits of information that are floating

712
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:13,279
around on social media but i benefit

713
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:14,080
much more

714
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:17,520
by not listening to you know low level

715
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,120
discussions i'm i'm

716
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:21,039
keeping my eyes on the ball so to speak

717
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:22,720
not on the audience

718
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:26,000
uh and so um

719
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:28,080
so that's one kind of pressure that you

720
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,159
find them on social media but

721
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,799
um i'm sort of resilient to that because

722
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:34,480
i i don't

723
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:37,679
monitor it uh but then there are of

724
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:38,080
course

725
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:41,120
um you know there are other ways that

726
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,520
people

727
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:43,200
exert pressure through students and

728
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:44,640
postdocs you know they are much more

729
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:47,279
vulnerable they they don't have

730
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,640
uh secure positions so

731
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,039
uh if you create an atmosphere where

732
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:55,279
some ideas are ridiculed and postdocs

733
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:56,240
and students

734
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:58,799
are simply afraid of pursuing them

735
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:01,120
because of their future careers you know

736
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:01,600
and

737
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:04,000
i got a lot of emails from people saying

738
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:06,159
you know i completely agree with you

739
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:08,400
uh but i cannot express myself because i

740
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:10,320
worry about my job prospects and

741
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:11,679
and that comes from people that are

742
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:13,679
reality not necessarily at the lowest

743
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,039
level of academia

744
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,120
even people that are you know have

745
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:19,840
secure positions are worried about that

746
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:22,880
and then you know this this is unhealthy

747
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:27,520
um because we want uh an open discussion

748
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:30,960
uh and scientific discussions a

749
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:32,320
discussion based on

750
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:35,360
content not on on the way things

751
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:39,440
look like or on personal attacks

752
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,720
why is it you think aliens are

753
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:43,039
considered to be unconventional or so

754
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,480
unconventional that they don't merit

755
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:46,640
an academic response or an academic

756
00:25:49,669 --> 00:25:47,520
investigation

757
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:49,679
well there are several aspects first of

758
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,240
all as we discussed before

759
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:54,960
many ideas are ridiculed for no good

760
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,440
reason

761
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,440
even in the context of black holes or

762
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:58,559
gravitational waves

763
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,279
as i mentioned to you i remember when i

764
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:02,640
started

765
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:05,840
as a postdoc the idea of inflation

766
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:07,919
cosmic inflation was ridiculed in some

767
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:08,880
circles of

768
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:11,679
astronomy so that happens all the time

769
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,480
except

770
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,960
in the and and of course the the search

771
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:16,960
for extraterrestrial intelligence

772
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,520
you know started 70 years ago so it has

773
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:20,960
a long history

774
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:23,360
in the early days it wasn't ridiculed as

775
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:24,799
much but

776
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:27,600
but every now and then you know there

777
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:29,279
was a very negative response of the

778
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:30,480
community and

779
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:33,200
since 93 there is no significant federal

780
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:34,880
funding for this

781
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:36,799
subject and as a result it was pushed

782
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:38,000
aside now

783
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:41,520
the strange thing is that um

784
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:45,120
for example in in particle physics

785
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:47,279
uh there was the super conducting super

786
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:48,559
collider a very big

787
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,080
experimental project that uh

788
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:55,039
at some point you know the funding for

789
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,640
it stopped and

790
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:58,320
and then what happened in theoretical

791
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:59,679
physics is that

792
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:01,760
that there was a whole culture that

793
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:03,679
developed after that

794
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:06,720
that is divorced from feedback from

795
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:07,760
experiments

796
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:10,720
and it uh this culture of theoretical

797
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:11,679
physics became

798
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:14,480
string theory and the discussions of the

799
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,679
multiverse

800
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,000
and and the extra dimensions and so

801
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:20,399
forth ideas that have no

802
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:23,919
evidence to support them so on the one

803
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:24,559
hand

804
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:26,559
you have a situation where the

805
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:27,679
mainstream in

806
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:30,480
theoretical physics discusses concepts

807
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:31,679
that have

808
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,039
no foundation in experimental

809
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,080
data and that is accepted

810
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:40,399
and you know the there are big

811
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:42,080
communities of people working on these

812
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,200
ideas with

813
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:46,240
and and they are not even interested in

814
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:47,600
testing the idea so so

815
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,960
most of the papers are about

816
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,960
mathematical details not about how to

817
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,039
test one idea versus another

818
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,440
and if you suggest the test they shy

819
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:57,039
away from it and try to

820
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:58,799
sort of raise enough dust so that you

821
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:02,080
won't be able to to rule out the theory

822
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,720
and so that's one culture and at the

823
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:06,240
same time you have in astronomy a

824
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,600
culture that

825
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,679
also as a result of not funding a

826
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:11,279
research area

827
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,799
is completely negative about something

828
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,000
that is down to earth

829
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,679
so to speak we have it on earth it's

830
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:20,000
intelligent life technological life

831
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:22,399
so and we now the one thing that we know

832
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:25,279
now that wasn't true 20 years ago is

833
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:28,640
we now know that uh half of

834
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:31,520
a big fraction of all the sun-like stars

835
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,720
have a

836
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,640
planet the size of the earth roughly the

837
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:36,159
same separation and

838
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:39,200
so the earth's sun system is not unusual

839
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,679
and

840
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,600
as a result if you arrange for similar

841
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:43,200
circumstances you might as well get

842
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,480
similar outcomes

843
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:46,480
and rather than argue about whether it's

844
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:48,159
likely or not likely whether we are

845
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:48,799
unique

846
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:51,200
special or whether we are very common as

847
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,000
common as

848
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:54,080
ants are on a sidewalk rather than argue

849
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:55,039
about that

850
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:56,720
and by the way i believe in the latter

851
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:58,399
options you know

852
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:01,200
we should just search and of course we

853
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:02,799
will never find the truth if we don't

854
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,520
search and

855
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:05,039
the strange thing is the current

856
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:06,640
situation is there is very little

857
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:07,360
funding

858
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,960
search for technological signatures

859
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:12,880
than there is for the search for dark

860
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,720
matter and frankly

861
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,279
the nature of dark matter will have zero

862
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:19,279
impact on our daily lives

863
00:29:24,789 --> 00:29:22,480
if um was a technological rally or if we

864
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:24,799
find other technological relics in space

865
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:27,600
that would have a huge impact on society

866
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,000
and

867
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,039
society the public is very interested in

868
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:33,279
this subject and it funds science

869
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,039
so i find the current situation

870
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,039
unacceptable

871
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,640
it would have an impact on society in

872
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,799
the sense of how we view ourselves

873
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:43,200
yeah there are many different aspects

874
00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:44,000
how we

875
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:46,880
view our place in the universe you know

876
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:47,600
and

877
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,480
our aspirations for space if there are

878
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:51,600
others out there

879
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:54,080
if there is a smarter kid on the block

880
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:55,679
and by the way most stars

881
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:58,240
formed billions of years before the sun

882
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:59,520
and therefore they may have had

883
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:00,720
civilizations like

884
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:03,919
us billions of years before us so we're

885
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,000
arriving relatively late to the game you

886
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:08,399
know the way i see it is you know we are

887
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:10,399
born into this world

888
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,960
uh just like actors that are put on a

889
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:13,679
stage

890
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,840
without a script we don't know what the

891
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:17,360
play is about

892
00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:18,880
so the first thing to check is whether

893
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,960
there are other actors out there perhaps

894
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,640
they know what's going on because they

895
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,559
have been around for a while

896
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:26,080
so that's what like searching for

897
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:27,840
another kid on the block

898
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,279
finding whether there are smarter kids

899
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:31,360
on you know most likely there were

900
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:33,600
civilizations that died by now

901
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,000
but we can find relics technological

902
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:37,919
relics they sent out to space just like

903
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,039
we send

904
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:41,600
voyager 1 voyager 2 no horizons and so

905
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,159
forth

906
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:44,399
so it's a very natural to me again it's

907
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:45,840
a common sense

908
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,159
to invest in the search for such things

909
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:52,640
i call it space archaeology you know

910
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,039
monitoring for example with the camera

911
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,600
every object that comes into the solar

912
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:58,880
system from outside

913
00:31:02,149 --> 00:31:00,799
that gets close to earth and and

914
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:02,159
checking it you know

915
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:03,679
checking whether it's artificial or

916
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,399
natural by a close-up photograph

917
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,159
because a picture is worth a thousand

918
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:10,159
words and in my case a picture is worth

919
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,880
66

920
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:13,440
000 words the number of words in my book

921
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:13,919
so

922
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,760
i think it's very natural to do this

923
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,440
search and invest

924
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:19,120
at least the same amount of money we

925
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:21,039
invest in the search for dark matter

926
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,799
which is also a search in the dark you

927
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:24,080
know we don't know what the dark matter

928
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,720
is

929
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,880
why not invest hundreds of millions of

930
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:28,240
dollars or

931
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:29,840
even a billion dollars that's what we

932
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:33,039
invested in in ligo to me it sounds like

933
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,720
a straightforward

934
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,799
thing to do a very common sensical thing

935
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:37,760
to do

936
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:40,960
but somehow my view is not

937
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:44,159
dominant they say not only that but

938
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:47,600
the discussion is being ridiculed and

939
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:50,559
moreover the community doesn't like me

940
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:52,320
saying that

941
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:54,080
uh even though that's the reality of the

942
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:55,600
situation

943
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:56,960
when i hear that what i'm wondering is

944
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:58,399
is there a way to monetize the search

945
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,440
for aliens

946
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,960
because then you can get the private

947
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,880
industry the private sector definitely

948
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:04,320
definitely and then number two what do

949
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,760
you think about elon musk's mission to

950
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:07,039
mars okay so those are two questions

951
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:08,720
privatizing the search for aliens and

952
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:09,440
then

953
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,799
elon musk definitely i think um if

954
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:14,559
there are individuals interested in the

955
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:16,880
search i have some

956
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:19,200
good ideas about how to do space

957
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,519
archaeology how to examine

958
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:23,760
interstellar objects that enter the

959
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,440
solar system and come close to earth and

960
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,120
take a photograph of them and

961
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:29,919
you know that that could be a a new

962
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:30,720
frontier

963
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:33,039
in in astronomy that there was never

964
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:34,000
pursued and

965
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,440
it's um simply because

966
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,440
just a few years ago we discovered the

967
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:41,679
first intestinal object

968
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,559
so right now you know we have our eyes

969
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,080
open it's

970
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,559
it's a wake-up call for us and uh i

971
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:49,760
would be glad

972
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:52,480
to discuss with a wealthy individuals

973
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,760
what can be done to

974
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,760
to advance this frontier i think it

975
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,600
would be a very exciting frontier

976
00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:59,200
even more exciting than gravitational

977
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:00,880
wave astrophysics

978
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:03,360
uh or the search for dark matter and

979
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:03,919
then

980
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:06,880
it could be you know it could be the

981
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:08,720
most important

982
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:11,519
discovery that humanity ever made if we

983
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:13,120
find conclusive evidence

984
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,919
uh for uh alien technology floating in

985
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:17,039
space

986
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:19,039
so given that i think we should

987
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:20,320
definitely

988
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:23,760
pursue it uh with the private sector

989
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,320
because

990
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:26,240
that is completely independent and is

991
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:27,600
known for its innovation

992
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:31,039
you know because there are very wealthy

993
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,159
individuals that

994
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:34,960
became wealthy as a result of taking

995
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:35,840
risks and

996
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:38,320
you know innovating in the technological

997
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,760
sector so i think

998
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,480
it would be fantastic to open up new

999
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:44,240
scientific frontiers

1000
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:47,120
uh that they they can pursue with their

1001
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:48,080
wealth

1002
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:51,360
um the second question about going to

1003
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:53,679
mars i think one aspect of that that was

1004
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:55,600
not explored enough and should

1005
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:58,880
should be explored before we go on that

1006
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:01,039
ship that brings us to mars

1007
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:04,320
is um the health concern you know they

1008
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:07,039
if um down here on earth we are

1009
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:09,040
protected by the earth's magnetic field

1010
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:09,599
from

1011
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,720
very energetic particles cosmic rays and

1012
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:15,119
by the atmosphere of the earth

1013
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,520
and the environment of the space station

1014
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,760
floating just hovering above earth is

1015
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,599
also relatively protected but

1016
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,240
if you go to mars and you spend a year

1017
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:28,399
actually a significant fraction of

1018
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:31,520
your brain cells can be damaged as a

1019
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,079
result of energetic particles

1020
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:36,320
going through the helmet i mean you

1021
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:37,679
can't

1022
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:41,520
you have to be in a cave underground

1023
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:44,960
or to have some special shielding

1024
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:47,599
around you to be protected and there was

1025
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,480
not enough

1026
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:50,800
attention given to that and i think that

1027
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:51,919
should be addressed

1028
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:54,480
because we don't want them it to be a

1029
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,280
one-way

1030
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:57,040
trip where after a year everyone that

1031
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:58,320
goes there dies

1032
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:59,760
so there's too much of a focus on

1033
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,000
building the atmosphere not much of

1034
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:04,720
the lack of a magnetic well yeah so i

1035
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:05,040
mean

1036
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:07,119
one thing is of course to create a

1037
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,160
habitat that

1038
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:10,079
allows people to breathe and you don't

1039
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:11,760
need to build a

1040
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,160
a whole atmosphere to terraform mars you

1041
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,200
can just do it inside a closed vessel

1042
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:19,680
you know and and but at the same time

1043
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,000
worrying about the

1044
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,200
how to protect humans so that they can

1045
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:27,280
live there for more than a year is i

1046
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,960
think a major challenge that was not

1047
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,480
addressed enough

1048
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,560
and of course you can do it in steps you

1049
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,800
can go first to the moon

1050
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:36,640
and then because the moon is closer to

1051
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,320
us and we can ship

1052
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:41,359
people back and forth more easily

1053
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:43,040
and that could be a stepping stone to

1054
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,000
mars what do you think of sean carroll's

1055
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,000
many worlds well it's not his many

1056
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,400
worlds interpretation but

1057
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:52,160
he seems to think it's the only game in

1058
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,160
town with regard to

1059
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,400
quantum mechanical interpretations and

1060
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,000
he seems to think it's not as arbitrary

1061
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:00,000
as people say and that maybe there's

1062
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:01,040
some evidence for it

1063
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:02,560
at least if you quote unquote follow the

1064
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:04,079
math so what do you make of that

1065
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:05,040
argument um

1066
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:08,000
well so quantum mechanics was discovered

1067
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:09,680
experimentally and

1068
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:12,800
that's an important lesson for us to

1069
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:13,359
maintain

1070
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:17,040
our humility as scientists you know

1071
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,920
sometimes we need the experiments to to

1072
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,920
to give us an insight about nature that

1073
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:23,760
we haven't expected

1074
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:26,960
and it takes us out of our comfort zone

1075
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,200
and he took albert einstein out of his

1076
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:31,520
comfort zone because he thought

1077
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,839
you can't have quantum mechanics with

1078
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:35,599
spooky action at the distance

1079
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:38,720
it makes no sense to him

1080
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,520
and so he wrote a paper about it the the

1081
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,760
einstein podolski rosen paper

1082
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,440
trying to propose an experiment that

1083
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:47,839
will demonstrate that spooky action

1084
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,480
at the distance does not exist versions

1085
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:52,240
of that experiment were done and

1086
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:55,839
he was proven wrong and indeed we are

1087
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:58,400
a century later after quantum mechanics

1088
00:37:02,390 --> 00:36:59,599
was discovered

1089
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,400
still uh feeling uneasy about how to

1090
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:03,760
interpret it

1091
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,119
um and this is an excellent example for

1092
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:09,680
why we need experiments because

1093
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:13,200
uh very often uh experiments open us

1094
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:16,640
our eyes to facts that we

1095
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,880
you know we haven't anticipated but our

1096
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:19,920
imagination

1097
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:23,359
is limited the more limited than

1098
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:26,560
nature's imagination in a way and we

1099
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:34,150
just being a student for life as a

1100
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:34,720
scientist

1101
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:37,200
you are you have to be humble and modest

1102
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:37,920
enough to

1103
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:41,680
admit that you know that perhaps nature

1104
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:44,240
uh is different than your preconceptions

1105
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,880
and

1106
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:47,040
if you were to say i don't need

1107
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:49,920
verification i know the truth in advance

1108
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:51,839
i know that there are extra dimensions

1109
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:55,040
or i know that um a rock

1110
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:57,040
or i know that this and that without

1111
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:59,200
even checking then you are just like the

1112
00:38:01,829 --> 00:38:00,079
philosophers

1113
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,839
during the days of galileo that didn't

1114
00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:03,599
want to look through his telescope

1115
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:05,359
because they knew that the sun moves

1116
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:06,800
around the earth

1117
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:09,280
so just i just wanted to to make that

1118
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,160
point that the

1119
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,880
quantum mechanics is really a an

1120
00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:14,800
excellent example for why

1121
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:17,839
a scientist we should always regard

1122
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:18,800
ourselves as

1123
00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:22,560
students of nature uh but coming back to

1124
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:25,280
so to the question of what's the meaning

1125
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:26,720
of quantum mechanics that

1126
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:28,640
as you mentioned that the there was the

1127
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:30,720
many world interpretation and

1128
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:32,960
uh sean carroll puts it in a modern

1129
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:35,440
context um

1130
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:39,040
and uh obviously does sean carroll add

1131
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:40,560
anything that hasn't been said before on

1132
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:42,160
the many worlds interpretation

1133
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:46,320
from everett um yeah i mean there are

1134
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:47,680
some new nuances

1135
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,359
uh now um that relate

1136
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:54,000
to how to to define the wave function

1137
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,560
and

1138
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:56,880
the possible existence of the multiverse

1139
00:39:02,230 --> 00:38:58,000
that some people

1140
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,240
contemplate as you know that the actual

1141
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:05,359
reality is much uh

1142
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:08,400
bigger than what we can experiment with

1143
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,040
within the observable universe that we

1144
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,880
see

1145
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:15,200
but um i would say that the verdict is

1146
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:15,920
still out

1147
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,280
i mean um every year or two i read the

1148
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,320
an interesting essay that uh offers new

1149
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:24,320
insights to quantum mechanics the

1150
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:25,760
interpretation of quantum mechanics but

1151
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:27,520
we are not there yet we we haven't

1152
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:29,119
converged on something that everyone

1153
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,240
agrees on

1154
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:32,560
and again i think the way to converge

1155
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,359
would be

1156
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:35,440
to be guided by experience and and it's

1157
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,960
quite possible you know that the one

1158
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,160
thing we're missing

1159
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,240
is the connection with gravity that we

1160
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:42,480
don't have a quantum theory of gravity

1161
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:44,160
that was tested experimentally and

1162
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:45,119
perhaps

1163
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:48,560
in the context of such a theory the

1164
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:50,720
the concerns we have we will go away

1165
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,480
because one thing that

1166
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:54,480
you recognize in quantum mechanics at

1167
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:55,839
least the traditional way it was

1168
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:57,200
formulated in

1169
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,520
is that time plays a special role

1170
00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:01,359
relative to space and

1171
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,960
um whereas in in the general theory of

1172
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:06,880
relativity time and space are just

1173
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:07,599
dimensions

1174
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:11,440
of space time and they can be curved by

1175
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,000
objects and so forth so perhaps once we

1176
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:18,560
identify a winning theory that unifies

1177
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:20,079
quantum mechanics and gravity many of

1178
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:21,680
the

1179
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:23,440
ambiguities that we have right now in

1180
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,280
physics and by the way there are many

1181
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,880
not just not just the interpretation of

1182
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,640
quantum mechanics the

1183
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,720
there is the information paradox in the

1184
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:32,720
context of black holes and

1185
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:35,200
we don't know what happens to

1186
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:37,599
information that falls into a black hole

1187
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:41,280
um stephen hawking demonstrated that

1188
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:42,720
black holes evaporate

1189
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,880
eventually into thermal radiation that

1190
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:46,960
doesn't carry that information so the

1191
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,839
question is

1192
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:50,160
if the black hole goes away where where

1193
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,200
are all

1194
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:52,560
where is all the information that we

1195
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:55,119
threw into it when we made it

1196
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,720
uh and that's a fundamental question

1197
00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:58,640
because quantum mechanics

1198
00:41:01,990 --> 00:41:00,160
argues that information cannot be

1199
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:02,000
destroyed and so

1200
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:05,200
this is one puzzle that is also unsolved

1201
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:07,440
in modern physics then there is a

1202
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:08,560
question of what

1203
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,960
happens in the singularities of either

1204
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:12,560
the singularity of a black hole where

1205
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:14,640
the curvature of space and time

1206
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:17,520
diverges or the singularity of the big

1207
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:19,760
bang what happened before the big bang

1208
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:20,720
do you believe that there are

1209
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,760
singularities within

1210
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:24,079
no it's clear that singularities are

1211
00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,800
just

1212
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:26,240
appearing in einstein's theory of

1213
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:28,240
gravity because it doesn't it's not

1214
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:30,560
unified with quantum mechanics

1215
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,160
because once you get to very large

1216
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,400
curvatures of space and time

1217
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:36,079
you have to correct the equations that

1218
00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:37,680
einstein wrote

1219
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:39,440
because quantum mechanics comes into

1220
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:40,880
play

1221
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:43,280
so again the singularities are just

1222
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:44,480
symptoms

1223
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:47,440
of us having an incomplete theory and

1224
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:48,000
what we need

1225
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,680
is to unified quantum mechanics with uh

1226
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:53,200
the general theory of relativity of

1227
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:55,520
einstein and of course string theory is

1228
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,839
a very popular contender but

1229
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:59,280
when you ask string theories can you

1230
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:01,040
tell me what what happens in the

1231
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:03,040
singularity of a black hole they say

1232
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:04,880
oh that's the too difficult question we

1233
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:06,800
can't really address it at this point

1234
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,599
when you ask them what happens at the

1235
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:11,440
big bang just before the big bang

1236
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:13,119
they say oh that's too difficult we

1237
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,800
can't really and then there are people

1238
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,640
that try to formulate some

1239
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:19,040
guesses as to how string theory would

1240
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:19,920
behave

1241
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:23,040
but um so first of all there is not

1242
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:25,520
a unique answer from string theory right

1243
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:26,400
now

1244
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:28,480
and the theory is not unique in its

1245
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:29,680
predictions

1246
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:33,119
and second uh on the issues that matter

1247
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,599
it doesn't put any skin in the game it

1248
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:37,200
doesn't say here is a prediction that

1249
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,079
you can test

1250
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:40,480
experimentally and if if you find one

1251
00:42:44,309 --> 00:42:42,079
answer then string theory is right if

1252
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,319
you find another answer then it's wrong

1253
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:46,079
no they prefer not to put skin in the

1254
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:48,319
game so that it will still be right

1255
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:49,520
forever

1256
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:52,240
and there is even the claim that if by

1257
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:52,720
some

1258
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:54,880
philosophers that if physicists agree on

1259
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:57,839
something for a decade it must be right

1260
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,599
and i find that

1261
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:02,000
really embarrassing that people argue

1262
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:02,720
that uh

1263
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:06,160
which philosophers oh there is uh

1264
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:09,920
there is the weed no um

1265
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:12,640
there is a philosopher with uh that that

1266
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,440
wrote a book

1267
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:15,440
about string theory and suggesting that

1268
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:16,640
you know we should

1269
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,240
adjust our conception of what physics is

1270
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:23,040
supposed to mean that uh experiments may

1271
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:24,720
not be needed and that

1272
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:28,560
in fact physics is what physicists do

1273
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,520
and once again from my perspective i

1274
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:33,359
hold exactly the opposite view i think

1275
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,240
that

1276
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,640
you know nature educates us we are just

1277
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,319
students of nature so

1278
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:40,160
we should be modest and learn from

1279
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,440
experiments we can't

1280
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:43,280
imagine that we will know the truth in

1281
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:44,720
advance you know it

1282
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,760
to me it sounds like hallucinations like

1283
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:49,440
you are high on drugs if you believe

1284
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,119
that you can that reality always

1285
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:53,280
reflects what you think it is

1286
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,440
uh that's what people that are you know

1287
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,599
that hallucinating

1288
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:59,359
but you can think that you're the the

1289
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,680
wealthiest person in the world and

1290
00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:03,920
when you go to the bank and check how

1291
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:05,599
much money you have in your checking

1292
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,800
account

1293
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,319
you realize that you know that's an

1294
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:10,400
experiment and you realize that

1295
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:13,200
you cannot cash it uh so i mean of

1296
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,880
course people can feel happy

1297
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,800
i have nothing against that they can do

1298
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:18,880
mathematical gymnastics and feel happy i

1299
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:19,680
just have

1300
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:21,839
the objection i have is about that

1301
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:24,240
applying to reality

1302
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,920
a reality check needs to happen at some

1303
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:27,520
point right exactly

1304
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:30,160
otherwise i mean you can just celebrate

1305
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,720
something that is not real

1306
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:35,200
okay let's talk about bob lazar i sent

1307
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,560
you an email and i asked you

1308
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:38,160
if you had the time to please watch this

1309
00:44:41,829 --> 00:44:40,079
video was a technical explanation of bob

1310
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:41,839
lazar in his younger years

1311
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:43,920
did you have a chance to even skim it

1312
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:45,920
yeah i skimmed it and then

1313
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:50,000
i what i found on on the web is that um

1314
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:52,240
he made a lot of statements without ev

1315
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:54,240
showing any evidence and

1316
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:56,240
you know here i give usually the example

1317
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:57,760
of napoleon

1318
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:59,200
you know there were many people over the

1319
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:00,800
years that claimed that they are

1320
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:04,800
napoleon and how do you check that

1321
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,560
once again experimentally you ask them

1322
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,319
show me your id

1323
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:10,560
and if they can't show you the idea that

1324
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:13,040
says that they are naporeon

1325
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,960
and if they keep insisting that they are

1326
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:17,040
naporeon without showing you evidence

1327
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:18,160
for that

1328
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:20,319
you know there are places where you can

1329
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:21,760
put them

1330
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:25,760
and my point is evidence is the key

1331
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:28,960
that's the way that uh science

1332
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:31,520
gets credibility that that that's the

1333
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:33,119
way for us to make progress as i

1334
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:35,040
discussed before for us to learn new

1335
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:35,599
things

1336
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:38,079
through experiments through evidence and

1337
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:38,880
it's just

1338
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,760
it's not just a nuance uh looking for

1339
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:43,440
evidence is not just something that you

1340
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:43,920
can

1341
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:48,079
give up on it's a necessity

1342
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:50,640
that's the only thing that will keep you

1343
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:51,359
sane

1344
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,040
and making relevant statements and

1345
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,880
you can make a lot of statements that

1346
00:46:01,990 --> 00:45:58,640
look bizarre

1347
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:02,000
interesting intriguing emotionally

1348
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:03,920
appealing

1349
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:04,880
you know you can make a lot of

1350
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:07,200
statements like that and in fact our

1351
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,800
culture is full of that

1352
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:10,800
you have all kinds of myths in our

1353
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:12,000
culture

1354
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:15,200
you know if you can think about lots of

1355
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:15,839
them i mean

1356
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:18,880
santa claus i mean there are lots of

1357
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:20,640
myths that are accepted

1358
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:23,280
uh and they're part of our culture but

1359
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:24,800
they're not regarded as possible you're

1360
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,079
crushing me right now i thought santa

1361
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,800
claus is real

1362
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:31,440
oh man summarize my point is uh when i

1363
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:33,520
checked a lot of the things he said

1364
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:36,720
he didn't bring um credible evidence to

1365
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:37,839
support them and

1366
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:40,640
that's what makes me worried that you

1367
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:41,520
know and

1368
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:44,880
that he he's not real

1369
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,960
ah ah i see i see did you take a look at

1370
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,880
any of his explanations as to how the

1371
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:49,839
spacecraft

1372
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:51,760
would work and is it feasible in your

1373
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:54,640
mind is it

1374
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,079
untenable is it ridiculous no i mean

1375
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,920
once again suppose he had a good idea

1376
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:01,680
for making a spacecraft that

1377
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,720
we currently do not do not have okay

1378
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,480
that nasa is not developing

1379
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:08,720
he could have made a fortune out of it

1380
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:09,599
how

1381
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:11,920
very simply instead of talking about it

1382
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:14,000
he could have built it

1383
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:17,440
and then it would fly what's the problem

1384
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:19,440
i mean that's a straightforward i don't

1385
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:21,280
understand why we need to talk about it

1386
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:21,920
even

1387
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:24,559
i mean any reasonable person that has an

1388
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:26,720
idea that is not being used

1389
00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:29,200
and that could make millions or even

1390
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,839
billions

1391
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:32,079
of dollars you know first of all

1392
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,160
establishes a patent on that

1393
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:36,240
and secondly you know tries to build

1394
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:37,359
this thing

1395
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:40,240
and if it's real he will make that

1396
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,440
profit you know

1397
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,440
it would be bigger than tesla it would

1398
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,200
be bigger than spacex

1399
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:46,800
because you would find a technology that

1400
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:48,559
nasa can use

1401
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:51,599
that nobody thought about so you know it

1402
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:52,000
makes

1403
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:54,319
zero sense to say i know how to do

1404
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:55,280
something

1405
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:57,680
and not reveal the details and not build

1406
00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:58,640
it

1407
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:02,559
that's what i tell kids when they come

1408
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:05,280
to me with ideas

1409
00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:07,119
okay i believe what he was saying is

1410
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:08,960
that he doesn't know how it works

1411
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,760
what happened was he was told to work on

1412
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,280
some craft and he believes they're of

1413
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:15,440
alien or extraterrestrial origin

1414
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,119
and that the us government knows how to

1415
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:18,720
pilot them to some degree

1416
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:20,079
in the same way that you can learn how

1417
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,160
to use a phone or a tablet like

1418
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,240
they've dropped phones and tribes and

1419
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:25,920
they know how to turn it on

1420
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:28,079
but they don't know how it works and he

1421
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:29,920
said possibly the way that it works is

1422
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,240
with

1423
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,960
this element called element 115 and

1424
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:34,079
there's a strong nuclear

1425
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:35,680
force which turns into a gravitational

1426
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:37,920
force now that i find interesting i

1427
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,280
don't know how it works but to me if

1428
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:41,040
that's true that's

1429
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:42,559
that's one way of unifying quantum field

1430
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:44,240
theory with gravity

1431
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,960
either way what do you think about that

1432
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,400
from the point of view of a physicist

1433
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:51,040
this is just nonsense

1434
00:48:54,549 --> 00:48:52,800
i mean it makes more sense i i've never

1435
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,559
heard about how you turn

1436
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:56,240
the nuclear force into a gravitational

1437
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,000
force in any

1438
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,559
piece of equipment of course if you

1439
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:02,000
reach the planck scale you might

1440
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,800
be able to do something but you know no

1441
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:06,079
accelerator

1442
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,040
gets even closer the only time when we

1443
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,800
reach that scale perhaps was at the big

1444
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:12,000
bang

1445
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:14,000
or near a singularity of a black hole

1446
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:15,839
but so i i would say

1447
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:18,160
this is just not i mean it makes no

1448
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:19,839
scientific sense to me

1449
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,520
and uh moreover let's imagine that he

1450
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:25,520
did not know the details but someone

1451
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:27,920
else has that equipment

1452
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:29,359
why do you think that someone else will

1453
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:31,119
keep it secret why won't they

1454
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:34,480
just use it or develop it and and

1455
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:37,280
you know get a great advantage relative

1456
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:38,160
to others

1457
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:41,200
by using it i was listening to one of

1458
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,839
you actually

1459
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:43,680
i believe you said this plenty of times

1460
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,880
that

1461
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:46,720
someone said to you deflation is not

1462
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:48,160
disprovable

1463
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:51,599
yeah okay

1464
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:54,720
do you mind explaining why okay so here

1465
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:55,280
is the

1466
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:58,880
thing that cosmic inflation

1467
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:01,599
is a theory that was proposed um about

1468
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:02,800
um

1469
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:06,960
40 years ago and it was meant to explain

1470
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:08,800
some very peculiar facts about the

1471
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:10,079
universe

1472
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:12,400
one of which let me just mention because

1473
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:13,520
it's really simple to

1474
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:15,839
to follow uh when we look in one

1475
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:16,720
direction

1476
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,160
uh in the on the sky we find the cosmic

1477
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:22,240
microwave background relic from the

1478
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:25,359
big bang with some temperature okay then

1479
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:26,000
we look at the

1480
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:28,240
opposite direction on the sky and we

1481
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:29,760
find the cosmic microwave background

1482
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:32,800
having exactly the same temperature

1483
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:35,440
now how is that possible it took the age

1484
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:36,480
of the universe

1485
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:39,920
for the this light to arrive to us from

1486
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:42,160
these two points on the sky

1487
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:45,520
and these two points on on the sky did

1488
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:47,200
not have time to communicate with each

1489
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:48,400
other because it would take

1490
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:51,280
twice as long at least or more than that

1491
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:51,920
for the

1492
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:54,000
light to arrive from one point to

1493
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:55,599
another to the other

1494
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:58,319
so how come the universe was arranged in

1495
00:51:02,630 --> 00:50:59,280
a way

1496
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:02,640
such that conditions are the same

1497
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:05,599
or throughout the entire sky in terms of

1498
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:07,040
the cosmic microwave background

1499
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:08,160
temperature for example

1500
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,079
so we know the universe had similar

1501
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:12,559
initial conditions

1502
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:15,760
uh to one part in a hundred thousand

1503
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:19,040
uh throughout the region that we can see

1504
00:51:22,069 --> 00:51:20,480
meaning that in one part in a hundred

1505
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:22,079
thousand it's the same temperature or

1506
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:22,480
what

1507
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:25,520
yes yes uh and how

1508
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:28,800
how come it was prepared in such a state

1509
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:30,160
which is very

1510
00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:33,599
special you know if you had if you would

1511
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:34,559
imagine a

1512
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:36,319
just a random state you would have very

1513
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:38,319
different temperatures in different

1514
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:40,480
places

1515
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:42,960
so inflation attempts to explain that

1516
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,880
the idea is that

1517
00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:46,880
uh everything that we see came from a

1518
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:49,119
very small patch

1519
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:52,319
that was stretched exponentially in time

1520
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,760
very quickly

1521
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:55,920
uh so points that were in contact with

1522
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:58,880
each other were separated

1523
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:01,599
very fast faster than light from each

1524
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,200
other and that is possible based on

1525
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:04,640
einstein's theory of gravity you can

1526
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:05,520
separate

1527
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:08,000
points exponentially away from each

1528
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:08,640
other

1529
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:12,720
if the vacuum itself dominates gravity

1530
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:14,319
which by the way is what is happening

1531
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:16,079
right now in the universe the

1532
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:17,280
expansion of the universe is

1533
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:19,760
accelerating as of recently

1534
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,800
over the past half of the history of the

1535
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:24,720
universe the the expansion is

1536
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,599
speeding up rather than slowing down and

1537
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:29,200
the idea is that the same thing happened

1538
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:30,480
at a very early

1539
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:33,839
time and then that

1540
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:36,640
took a small region of space that where

1541
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:38,400
points were connected to each other had

1542
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,160
the same conditions

1543
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:42,800
and spread them apart sorry just i want

1544
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:44,640
to make sure i'm understanding is this

1545
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:46,160
just a change of the metric with the

1546
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,680
cosmological constant

1547
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:49,280
and so there so inflation is just saying

1548
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,720
the cosmological constant was large in

1549
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:52,240
the early universe and then somehow

1550
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,680
became smaller yeah exactly and

1551
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:57,680
the cosmological constant is equivalent

1552
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:58,800
to the vacuum

1553
00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:01,520
having some mass density some energy

1554
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:02,480
density

1555
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:04,480
which by the way today is called dark

1556
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:06,079
energy i mean it's basically the energy

1557
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,760
of the back

1558
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:10,400
so by the vacuum i mean if you clean up

1559
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:11,280
all the matter

1560
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:13,680
whatever you have left is the backing

1561
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:15,440
and the vacuum could have

1562
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:18,559
a uniform energy density the same energy

1563
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:19,440
density

1564
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,160
everywhere uh because it's the vacuum

1565
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:23,920
it's the ground state

1566
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:26,400
so if you just imagine at the early

1567
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,000
cosmic time the vacuum had

1568
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:30,400
a large energy density and that went

1569
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:31,119
away

1570
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:33,200
it was sort of a false vacuum the vacuum

1571
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,480
was excited to some higher state

1572
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:38,319
and then it decayed into the vacuum we

1573
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,599
have today

1574
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,359
then that will create an exponential

1575
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,040
expansion that is called

1576
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:45,440
a cosmic inflation early on and would

1577
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:47,680
explain some facts about the universe

1578
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,880
it could also generate it will make the

1579
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:51,920
universe

1580
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,599
have the same conditions everywhere but

1581
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,200
it also through quantum mechanics

1582
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:57,280
generates small

1583
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:00,880
ripples in the the density of matter

1584
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:03,440
one percent ripples yeah small

1585
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:04,880
fluctuations

1586
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:08,319
quantum mechanics

1587
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:10,559
that later grow and become the galaxies

1588
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:11,839
that we see today or

1589
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:14,000
the objects that we see today so so

1590
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:15,440
that's that's the nice

1591
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,920
the beauty of the concept of cosmic

1592
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,599
inflation that it explains

1593
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:21,520
a lot of things and that's why it was

1594
00:54:24,549 --> 00:54:23,200
widely accepted after

1595
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:24,559
after a while in the scientific

1596
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:27,040
community uh

1597
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,400
sorry i just want to make sure i'm

1598
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,920
understanding this correctly so is the

1599
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:31,200
way that they put a

1600
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:34,000
bound on the time that the cosmological

1601
00:54:37,829 --> 00:54:34,800
constant was

1602
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:37,839
extremely high is it with by observing

1603
00:54:40,069 --> 00:54:38,319
the

1604
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:40,079
cosmic background radiation and saying

1605
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,599
okay there's a one percent difference

1606
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:43,440
about one in a hundred you said right no

1607
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:44,720
one in a hundred thousand

1608
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:48,000
then that means that there's a

1609
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:50,079
a bound as to how long that could go on

1610
00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:51,760
for because otherwise the fluctuations

1611
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,960
would be so large that we would see

1612
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,760
larger gaps

1613
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:55,760
i mean larger variations so that there

1614
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,640
is there is a lower limit on how long it

1615
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:00,240
persisted which is

1616
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:03,760
you need to inflate enough so that

1617
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:06,319
the small patch would become as big as

1618
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,400
the universe today

1619
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:11,359
okay that's uh that's the minimum you

1620
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:12,319
need to expand by

1621
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:13,839
but it could have expanded much more

1622
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:15,440
than that we just don't know

1623
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,720
so inflation could have lasted much more

1624
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,559
you know we we have no upper limit on

1625
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:22,640
how long it lasted

1626
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:26,079
but we have a lower limit uh and and we

1627
00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:27,760
know that it should have ended so that

1628
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:28,400
we will

1629
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,440
end up with universe full of matter

1630
00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:33,359
that made every all the objects we see

1631
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,440
now so the vacuum could not have con

1632
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:37,839
continued to dominate the expansion

1633
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:40,240
forever because then we wouldn't exist

1634
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:43,040
so the vacuum dominated for a while and

1635
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:44,319
that while

1636
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:47,680
lasted at least 60

1637
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:49,599
periods of exponential expansion at

1638
00:55:52,789 --> 00:55:50,799
least 60

1639
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,799
and then after that it you know we don't

1640
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:54,160
know how much more but

1641
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:56,799
eventually it decayed and became the

1642
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,160
matter that we have

1643
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:00,319
today and and the universe entered into

1644
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:02,799
its expansion the way we see it

1645
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:06,160
um so anyway unfalsifiable because

1646
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:09,440
okay no so that idea

1647
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:11,599
as it was formulated initially was a

1648
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:13,119
very interesting idea because you can

1649
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:13,760
test it

1650
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:16,400
there are various predictions uh one of

1651
00:56:18,789 --> 00:56:17,280
them is that

1652
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:18,799
the geometry of the universe would be

1653
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:21,200
flat and

1654
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,760
and so forth and and by the way it was

1655
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,359
confirmed the the

1656
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,359
the universe is flat you know if you

1657
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:29,440
draw a triangle the sum of the angles is

1658
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:31,599
180 degrees and so forth

1659
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:35,040
but at some point uh it became clear

1660
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:35,920
that

1661
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:38,960
to account for inflation you actually

1662
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:40,400
come up with

1663
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:44,960
uh the multiverse uh

1664
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:47,119
there are lots of other regions in

1665
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:48,160
inside of which

1666
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,920
conditions could be very different so

1667
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:52,079
anything that is possible

1668
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:56,000
happens an infinite number of times

1669
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:58,720
in such a theory of cosmic inflation so

1670
00:57:02,710 --> 00:56:59,280
once you

1671
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:02,720
allow for not just our reality to exist

1672
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,440
but you have

1673
00:57:07,270 --> 00:57:05,599
all kinds of regions where things

1674
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:07,280
everything that can happen happens

1675
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,839
an infinite number of times then it

1676
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:12,000
starts losing its predictability because

1677
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,440
anything that you find about our

1678
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:15,760
universe could you could

1679
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,040
it's a very flexible theory now that

1680
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,200
can explain anything and so i had a

1681
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:23,200
panel discussion with alan guth

1682
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:25,359
that is one of the pioneers of inflation

1683
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:26,559
and in which

1684
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:28,960
i asked him a simple question i said and

1685
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:29,599
that was

1686
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:32,000
about five years ago i asked him is

1687
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,000
inflation forsifiable

1688
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:36,559
is there an experiment by which you will

1689
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:37,760
detect something

1690
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:39,359
about the cosmic micro background or

1691
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:40,799
about the universe

1692
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:43,520
and that will demonstrate that inflation

1693
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:45,280
is wrong

1694
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,359
can you envision something i'm not

1695
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:48,960
saying necessarily that it's wrong i'm

1696
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:51,040
just saying is there a way to test it

1697
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:52,799
skin in the game as you would call it

1698
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:54,079
yeah and he said

1699
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:57,520
that's a silly question he said uh

1700
00:58:01,270 --> 00:58:00,160
any observational fact uh in the

1701
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:01,280
universe can be a

1702
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:03,200
inflation right now as a theory is

1703
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:04,640
sufficiently flexible

1704
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,720
that it can explain can accommodate any

1705
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:08,880
fact that you detect

1706
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:11,920
and to me a theory of everything is not

1707
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,880
very far from being a theory of nothing

1708
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,799
because if you can explain anything that

1709
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:18,160
you find

1710
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:20,480
then what's the value of the theory it

1711
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:22,079
doesn't give you any added

1712
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:24,880
value because first you find it and then

1713
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,599
the theory says

1714
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:27,280
yes yes of course a version of the

1715
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:28,880
theory would make it

1716
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:31,040
so what did i learn i didn't learn that

1717
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,319
theory is right

1718
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:34,400
i didn't love the theory i cannot learn

1719
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:36,640
that theory is wrong

1720
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:38,319
and therefore it loses its scientific

1721
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:40,319
value in my view

1722
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:43,119
not in the view of alan good he thinks

1723
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:43,520
that

1724
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:46,000
it makes the theory very robust because

1725
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:47,760
it can agree with anything that is being

1726
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:48,559
found

1727
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,319
and you know that is the shift in the

1728
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:52,240
culture that i'm

1729
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:55,599
worried about you see this with string

1730
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:56,640
theory as well

1731
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:58,640
yes i'm not sure if alan is a string

1732
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:00,000
theorist

1733
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:03,359
well no he's not but the two cultures

1734
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:06,559
uh you know celebrate to get uh the same

1735
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:09,119
the same view about how physics can be

1736
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:11,599
done nowadays

1737
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:13,760
they both i mean also in the context of

1738
00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:14,640
string theory

1739
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:17,359
you know for example there was a

1740
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:18,720
suggestion

1741
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:22,160
that the uh you know some it has a

1742
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:23,359
landscape and and

1743
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:25,119
in its landscape the landscape of the

1744
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:26,960
string theory uh

1745
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:30,160
accounts for some uh versions of

1746
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:33,440
inflation and so i asked the person that

1747
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:36,559
worked on that i said okay so this

1748
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:38,559
connection that you make between

1749
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:40,880
the natural incarnation of string theory

1750
00:59:45,910 --> 00:59:41,599
and

1751
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,920
something in the cosmic microwave

1752
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:47,680
background about inflation and we show

1753
00:59:50,309 --> 00:59:48,640
that the kind of

1754
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,319
inflation that you are advocating is

1755
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:51,839
wrong would that prove

1756
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:54,400
string theory wrong and that person said

1757
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:54,960
no

1758
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:57,280
string theory will always be right what

1759
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:58,160
it will

1760
01:00:01,990 --> 01:00:00,000
prove is the connection that i made

1761
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:02,000
between string theory and inflation

1762
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:05,839
that connection is wrong so you see

1763
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:08,160
there are the psychology is always to

1764
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:09,440
retreat

1765
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:12,720
uh to a place that cannot be

1766
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:16,640
shown wrong and although it sounds very

1767
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:17,920
appealing and comfortable

1768
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:22,559
because you can maintain your image as

1769
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:25,359
you know being always right and you

1770
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:25,920
don't

1771
01:00:30,950 --> 01:00:28,559
put any skin in the game it's not really

1772
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:30,960
what physics is about

1773
01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:32,400
this flatness that you mentioned of

1774
01:00:36,789 --> 01:00:34,880
space-time is this why we can say that a

1775
01:00:38,069 --> 01:00:36,799
galaxy is moving away from us at a

1776
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:38,079
certain speed and the reason why i say

1777
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:39,520
that is

1778
01:00:43,589 --> 01:00:42,000
in a manifold you can't technically to

1779
01:00:45,109 --> 01:00:43,599
get a bit technical can't technically

1780
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:45,119
compare two different velocities unless

1781
01:00:47,109 --> 01:00:46,400
they're brought at the same point unless

1782
01:00:49,109 --> 01:00:47,119
you have

1783
01:00:50,950 --> 01:00:49,119
a horizontal or vertical subspace given

1784
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,960
by a connection and so on

1785
01:00:54,309 --> 01:00:53,040
so how can you compare different

1786
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:54,319
velocities when you're at different

1787
01:00:56,470 --> 01:00:55,520
points in a manifold that's what i'm

1788
01:00:59,670 --> 01:00:56,480
wondering

1789
01:01:02,630 --> 01:00:59,680
no so first of all i should say that in

1790
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:02,640
einstein's theory of gravity you can get

1791
01:01:05,990 --> 01:01:05,760
a very distant galaxy to move away from

1792
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:06,000
us

1793
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:10,640
it's far away

1794
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:13,200
so space and time can expand faster than

1795
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,680
light

1796
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:15,040
when you're dealing with points that are

1797
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:16,960
separated by a large distance

1798
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:19,680
that's allowed by einstein's theory and

1799
01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:20,400
that's why

1800
01:01:24,789 --> 01:01:22,960
we lose contact with galaxies once they

1801
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:24,799
start moving faster than light relative

1802
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:25,599
to us

1803
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,480
and so in an accelerating universe two

1804
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,160
points that were in contact

1805
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:32,000
are separated eventually so that they

1806
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:34,960
are not in contact anymore after a while

1807
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:38,079
and of course that time that it takes is

1808
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:39,760
the time that it takes them to reach the

1809
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:41,920
speed of light basically that's the time

1810
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:43,520
that they're still in contact and after

1811
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:45,119
that they're not in cont

1812
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:48,400
that they cannot communicate um but

1813
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:51,440
to your second question that has to do

1814
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,000
with how

1815
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:54,720
can we measure that the universe is flat

1816
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:56,720
and that is simply just like

1817
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:00,319
um you check if a piece of paper is flat

1818
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:03,520
you draw a triangle and you check the

1819
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:04,720
sum of the angles

1820
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,760
you know that this piece of paper is

1821
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,200
flat

1822
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:13,440
but if it sits on top of a ball for

1823
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:14,480
example

1824
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:17,280
then the sum of the angle can be bigger

1825
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:17,920
than

1826
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,480
180 degrees you can take a line from the

1827
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,000
pole to the equator

1828
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:24,240
go along the equator and go back to the

1829
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:25,119
pole

1830
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:27,760
and each of these angles would be 90

1831
01:02:33,670 --> 01:02:29,200
degrees

1832
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:33,680
so 90 plus 90 plus 90 if you're doing it

1833
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:37,680
that would be 270 it's more than 180

1834
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:39,119
degrees then you know that

1835
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:42,319
the surface is not flat it's actually

1836
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:42,880
curved

1837
01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:46,480
like a ball positive so

1838
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,720
how do we check the sums of the angles

1839
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:49,680
of a triangle

1840
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:52,240
in the universe well we just need a

1841
01:02:55,190 --> 01:02:53,359
standard ruler

1842
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:55,200
and we have that uh in the early

1843
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:56,720
universe you know

1844
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:59,119
a sound wave would propagate a certain

1845
01:03:01,750 --> 01:02:59,839
distance

1846
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:01,760
that we can calculate so at a given time

1847
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:03,920
after the big bang we know how far

1848
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:06,559
a sound wave can propagate and it turns

1849
01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:08,079
out that this is the distance where you

1850
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:09,119
can have

1851
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:12,160
correlations between the temperature

1852
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:13,839
of the microwave background because

1853
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:15,280
sound waves

1854
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:17,680
correlate different points in the sky

1855
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:19,119
where the temperature of the micro

1856
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:20,240
background

1857
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:23,119
knows about another point sorry why are

1858
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:24,640
you using sound waves because

1859
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:27,039
sound waves require a medium yes there

1860
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,799
is a medium the matter in the universe

1861
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:30,480
is the medium i mean there is

1862
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:32,960
ordinary matter and there is light and

1863
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:33,920
there is dark matter

1864
01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:36,400
so there is matter uh and and the sound

1865
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:36,960
waves

1866
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,720
we can calculate the speed by which they

1867
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:40,880
move and so if we look at a certain time

1868
01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:42,240
after the big bang

1869
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:44,160
we can tell how far sound waves could

1870
01:03:46,789 --> 01:03:46,000
propagate and that defines the standard

1871
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:46,799
ruler

1872
01:03:51,430 --> 01:03:49,760
that's the distance over which different

1873
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:51,440
points in the sky would be correlated

1874
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:53,599
with each other because they could speak

1875
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,920
via sound with each other and so when we

1876
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:57,599
look at the micro background

1877
01:04:00,789 --> 01:03:59,920
we can measure the angle that that

1878
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:00,799
yardstick

1879
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:03,280
occupies and we can figure out whether

1880
01:04:07,029 --> 01:04:04,480
the sums

1881
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:07,039
of the angles in that triangle the base

1882
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:08,000
of the triangle

1883
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:11,119
is the yardstick the distance that sound

1884
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,799
traveled at that time

1885
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:14,880
and then the the other sides of the

1886
01:04:18,870 --> 01:04:16,720
triangle bring

1887
01:04:20,309 --> 01:04:18,880
go to the observer so the observer looks

1888
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:20,319
at this yardstick

1889
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:23,039
and we can look at how what is the angle

1890
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:25,039
that this yardstick occupies

1891
01:04:28,870 --> 01:04:27,039
and from that we can figure out that

1892
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:28,880
whether the universe is flat or not and

1893
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:30,799
this experiment was done in in the year

1894
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:32,000
2000

1895
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:34,160
uh we already knew that the universe is

1896
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:35,119
flat

1897
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:37,280
that it's the simplest geometry you can

1898
01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:38,720
think of that's absolutely

1899
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:41,599
interesting of a flat space a priori is

1900
01:04:45,829 --> 01:04:43,280
there a reason why it should be flat

1901
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:45,839
i see it's as simple but and also is

1902
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:47,280
there a margin of error with this

1903
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:48,880
well there should be a margin of error

1904
01:04:54,630 --> 01:04:51,839
there is a margin of error all right

1905
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:54,640
the precision right now is a few percent

1906
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:55,200
uh

1907
01:05:01,109 --> 01:04:59,359
but um cosmic inflation naturally

1908
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,119
you know in the all the incarnation of

1909
01:05:06,829 --> 01:05:03,359
it where not everything was possible but

1910
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:06,839
if you were to take the models from 1980

1911
01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:09,599
um they would expect the universe to be

1912
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:10,640
flat because

1913
01:05:14,230 --> 01:05:12,559
you take a small patch of space you

1914
01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:14,240
might have some curvature of space and

1915
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:15,520
time in that patch

1916
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:17,760
but then you inflate it and when you

1917
01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:19,599
inflate it you stretch it

1918
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,599
to huge dimensions so all the curvature

1919
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:23,200
that you had on small scales

1920
01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:26,319
is now being ironed out and

1921
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:28,640
you can think of it as a cosmic iron you

1922
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:30,319
basically iron out by

1923
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:33,599
expansion you cl you make the universe

1924
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:34,079
flat

1925
01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:39,920
indeed

1926
01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:41,520
that seems to me to be evidence for the

1927
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:43,359
inflation yes it is

1928
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:45,760
but in the original incarnation of the

1929
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:46,960
1980s

1930
01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:49,119
uh what happened afterwards is that the

1931
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:50,720
theory was

1932
01:05:54,470 --> 01:05:53,520
appended supplemented by ingredients

1933
01:05:57,029 --> 01:05:54,480
that make it

1934
01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:57,039
much less predictive that it can

1935
01:06:01,029 --> 01:05:58,400
accommodate anything

1936
01:06:01,589 --> 01:06:01,039
that's the part that they resist i see i

1937
01:06:03,510 --> 01:06:01,599
see

1938
01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:03,520
let's imagine i think wolfram predicts

1939
01:06:06,870 --> 01:06:04,880
that there's a lower bound to the

1940
01:06:08,789 --> 01:06:06,880
elementary particle masses or at least

1941
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:08,799
he says he can get to that

1942
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,400
i think you mentioned that astrophysical

1943
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:12,880
data can validate this

1944
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:17,039
how well wolfram has a different

1945
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:21,520
way of looking at physics uh

1946
01:06:25,750 --> 01:06:24,640
which is related to um something he

1947
01:06:29,430 --> 01:06:25,760
worked on

1948
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,440
for a while it's diagrams of

1949
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:31,520
hyper graphs and so on yeah temperatures

1950
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:33,760
and he has a group of people working

1951
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:34,400
with him and

1952
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:37,760
it's a very ambitious process project

1953
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:41,280
he is very bright i

1954
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:44,400
i haven't seen yet that the effort

1955
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:46,640
yield predictions that we can test

1956
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:47,440
experimentally

1957
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:49,359
so far he's trying to reproduce things

1958
01:06:55,190 --> 01:06:51,039
we know about

1959
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,109
not far from where i live and he's

1960
01:07:02,069 --> 01:06:58,960
relatively local

1961
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:02,079
how many minutes am i driving

1962
01:07:07,349 --> 01:07:05,280
yeah at some point i i hope to to have a

1963
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:07,359
conversation with him walking together

1964
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:08,880
in the woods and

1965
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:12,160
trying to get the latest on his work

1966
01:07:15,670 --> 01:07:14,559
but as far as i know it's not yet at the

1967
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:15,680
point where

1968
01:07:20,549 --> 01:07:17,760
the theory predicts new things that we

1969
01:07:22,950 --> 01:07:20,559
can test beyond what we already know

1970
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:22,960
i see i see so what do you think of his

1971
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,640
model

1972
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:26,640
i think it's too preliminary it's it's

1973
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:27,920
nice to have people thinking

1974
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:29,680
independently you know and

1975
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,799
um i i very much i i salute his

1976
01:07:36,309 --> 01:07:34,799
effort intellectually because it's very

1977
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:36,319
ambitious you know to come up with a

1978
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:40,160
completely new way of looking at physics

1979
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:42,880
and his courage for do taking on this

1980
01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:43,920
task

1981
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:46,319
uh and his intellect i mean he's he's

1982
01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:47,200
brilliant

1983
01:07:51,430 --> 01:07:49,599
when you listen to him have you heard of

1984
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:51,440
eric weinstein's geometric unity

1985
01:07:54,950 --> 01:07:53,119
have you researched into it and what do

1986
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:54,960
you think about it i did not

1987
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:58,559
look into it in detail no

1988
01:08:01,829 --> 01:08:00,880
so i cannot comment but i know that he's

1989
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,839
very bright

1990
01:08:05,109 --> 01:08:03,440
yeah do you think that innovation in

1991
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:05,119
physics is going to necessarily come

1992
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:06,720
from the outside because of these

1993
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,160
selective pressures that you mentioned

1994
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:10,400
in the

1995
01:08:16,149 --> 01:08:13,680
in academia yeah well i think uh

1996
01:08:16,910 --> 01:08:16,159
what it what happens is that this

1997
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:16,920
pressure

1998
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:20,480
is is reducing the efficiency of science

1999
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:21,199
that

2000
01:08:25,510 --> 01:08:23,679
fewer people are attempting to deviate

2001
01:08:27,269 --> 01:08:25,520
from the beaten path

2002
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:27,279
and especially the young people you know

2003
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:29,440
if you think about albert einstein he

2004
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:30,719
was not deterred by

2005
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:33,759
oppression he in one year had five

2006
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,799
seminal papers and i very much hope that

2007
01:08:41,030 --> 01:08:38,640
this tradition will come back

2008
01:08:42,229 --> 01:08:41,040
where young people will not be afraid to

2009
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:42,239
innovate

2010
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:45,520
uh and uh i think

2011
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:47,920
even with social pressure as long as we

2012
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:49,600
continue to do experiments you know

2013
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:50,880
that's the key

2014
01:08:54,070 --> 01:08:52,640
because experiments and collecting

2015
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:54,080
evidence will eventually

2016
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:56,719
tell us that we are wrong it takes more

2017
01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:57,600
time

2018
01:09:00,709 --> 01:08:59,440
if we are not open-minded and if you

2019
01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:00,719
look for example

2020
01:09:04,229 --> 01:09:04,000
the perfect example is the mayan culture

2021
01:09:16,149 --> 01:09:04,239
i

2022
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:16,159
culture were held

2023
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,319
at a very high regard they were

2024
01:09:23,189 --> 01:09:20,159
considered astronomer priests

2025
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:23,199
the highest level in society and i was

2026
01:09:27,990 --> 01:09:24,719
wondering why and

2027
01:09:30,789 --> 01:09:28,000
turns out that uh politicians

2028
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:30,799
the rulers of the mayans they thought

2029
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:31,359
that

2030
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:33,120
by knowing the positions of planets and

2031
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,400
stars on the sky

2032
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,719
you can forecast the future so you can

2033
01:09:40,390 --> 01:09:38,799
tell the outcome of a war you can decide

2034
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:40,400
when to go out to a war

2035
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:42,239
so that it will be successful so that

2036
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:45,120
you would win based on the locations of

2037
01:09:50,149 --> 01:09:48,319
planets and so they put astronomers

2038
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:50,159
that monitor the sky the planets where

2039
01:09:53,910 --> 01:09:52,000
did they get that idea from

2040
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:53,920
just from the predictive powers of the

2041
01:09:59,350 --> 01:09:56,320
weather and then extrapolating that

2042
01:10:02,229 --> 01:09:59,360
no it's just a it's um it's sort of like

2043
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:02,239
horoscopes nowadays you know astrology

2044
01:10:05,350 --> 01:10:04,480
uh it's a natural tendency of people to

2045
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:05,360
believe that

2046
01:10:09,189 --> 01:10:07,679
there are powers that extend way beyond

2047
01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:09,199
what reality is

2048
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:12,239
you know and alchemy was one example

2049
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:13,679
where people thought that their

2050
01:10:20,550 --> 01:10:16,960
beliefs or emotions affect you know

2051
01:10:23,669 --> 01:10:20,560
materials the nature of materials

2052
01:10:26,470 --> 01:10:23,679
so anyway they thought that

2053
01:10:28,149 --> 01:10:26,480
the motion of stars and planets affect

2054
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:28,159
human history and that's

2055
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:31,360
astrology fundamentally so but

2056
01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:34,719
that was their belief system and then

2057
01:10:38,229 --> 01:10:36,560
and then the astronomers collected huge

2058
01:10:42,709 --> 01:10:38,239
amounts of data over

2059
01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:42,719
thousands of years and uh amazing data

2060
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:44,800
but it was not used for the purpose of

2061
01:10:49,110 --> 01:10:45,760
finding

2062
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:49,120
uh newton's law of gravity it was for

2063
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:50,880
the purp for the political purpose of

2064
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:52,719
winning a war

2065
01:10:56,470 --> 01:10:54,560
and if you think about it from a modern

2066
01:10:59,430 --> 01:10:56,480
perspective

2067
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:59,440
we now know that the motion of mars or

2068
01:11:02,310 --> 01:10:59,840
or

2069
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:02,320
venus have nothing to do with whether

2070
01:11:05,669 --> 01:11:04,320
the gulf war was successful or a

2071
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:05,679
disaster

2072
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:08,159
and so we nowadays have a different view

2073
01:11:12,070 --> 01:11:09,199
about planets

2074
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:12,080
and stars and collecting all this

2075
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:14,719
exquisite data was not enough

2076
01:11:17,830 --> 01:11:17,360
if you have the wrong conception good

2077
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:17,840
data

2078
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:20,400
is not enough so you need to be

2079
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:22,080
open-minded

2080
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:24,080
for other interpretations and to think

2081
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:26,159
about the data that you get in ways that

2082
01:11:30,310 --> 01:11:28,000
are not traditional

2083
01:11:31,990 --> 01:11:30,320
and i bring this up because if you

2084
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:32,000
always think that you know the answer in

2085
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:32,880
advance

2086
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:35,280
you might not even collect the data

2087
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:36,960
that's even more dangerous

2088
01:11:40,149 --> 01:11:39,760
the mayans were in a way more advanced

2089
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,159
than

2090
01:11:43,669 --> 01:11:42,000
those people that say we don't need data

2091
01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:43,679
we know the answer without it

2092
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:45,520
you know those philosophers let's say if

2093
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:47,040
physicists agree on something that's

2094
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:47,760
enough

2095
01:11:51,110 --> 01:11:49,840
that's that's much more primitive than

2096
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:51,120
the mayans

2097
01:11:55,910 --> 01:11:53,920
uh belief system because the minds were

2098
01:11:59,030 --> 01:11:55,920
collecting data about the sky

2099
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,040
at least and and you know the

2100
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:01,120
i think that's the most important thing

2101
01:12:04,709 --> 01:12:02,880
that we can

2102
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:04,719
maintain in terms of the integrity of

2103
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:07,679
science is its reliance on evidence

2104
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:10,800
rather than on what people say

2105
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:13,840
and i hope if that stays

2106
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,320
even if some ideas are ridiculed now

2107
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:18,080
eventually there would be data and

2108
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:19,679
evidence that would

2109
01:12:22,310 --> 01:12:20,880
demonstrate that they're right and

2110
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:22,320
that's what happened to me you know in

2111
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,679
the examples that we

2112
01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:24,960
discussed at the beginning of our

2113
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:27,520
conversation you know that eventually

2114
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:29,600
data came along and demonstrated that

2115
01:12:33,669 --> 01:12:31,280
what i'm saying is correct

2116
01:12:34,709 --> 01:12:33,679
and so that that is you know great i

2117
01:12:36,390 --> 01:12:34,719
mean

2118
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,400
and by the way it's not about me being

2119
01:12:40,229 --> 01:12:38,480
right it's not about us it's about

2120
01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:40,239
right it's about the dialogue we have

2121
01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:42,239
with nature i recall reading one of your

2122
01:12:45,750 --> 01:12:43,920
scientific american articles about the

2123
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:45,760
limitations of knowing a theory of

2124
01:12:48,630 --> 01:12:47,360
everything and you cited girdle

2125
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:48,640
i'm not sure if you were citing girdle

2126
01:12:51,189 --> 01:12:50,080
to say that what girdles incompleteness

2127
01:12:53,350 --> 01:12:51,199
theorem has to say

2128
01:12:55,189 --> 01:12:53,360
is something about whether or not we can

2129
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:55,199
ultimately find the laws that govern us

2130
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:57,280
or you're using that to say well look

2131
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:58,800
there are limitations so let's be a bit

2132
01:13:01,270 --> 01:12:59,600
more humble

2133
01:13:02,630 --> 01:13:01,280
which one was it does girdle's theorem

2134
01:13:04,229 --> 01:13:02,640
have anything to do

2135
01:13:06,149 --> 01:13:04,239
it was the second one i think we should

2136
01:13:08,790 --> 01:13:06,159
be humble because

2137
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:08,800
we will never have a complete theory of

2138
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:09,520
everything

2139
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:12,320
uh logically that was demonstrated by

2140
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:13,440
ghetto but

2141
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:16,560
but also you know the scientific process

2142
01:13:21,270 --> 01:13:19,360
is working progress you know we

2143
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:21,280
it turns out that when we discover new

2144
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:23,600
things uh we can ask more questions

2145
01:13:27,830 --> 01:13:26,000
it's not that we ask less questions so

2146
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:27,840
the the illusion that you know physics

2147
01:13:30,830 --> 01:13:28,560
will get to an

2148
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:30,840
end and that would be it you know that

2149
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:32,400
was uh

2150
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:34,960
advocated that a hundred years ago

2151
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:35,600
before

2152
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:38,080
uh einstein came more than a hundred

2153
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:38,960
years 100

2154
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:41,280
yeah 20 years ago before einstein came

2155
01:13:44,550 --> 01:13:42,960
with special relativity and quantum

2156
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:44,560
mechanics was discovered

2157
01:13:48,470 --> 01:13:47,360
and clearly physics was revolutionized

2158
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:48,480
and it's being

2159
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:50,719
it was said the in recent decades by

2160
01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:51,600
some people and

2161
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:53,280
again i i think they are completely

2162
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:54,880
misguided because

2163
01:14:00,149 --> 01:13:57,600
uh you know knowledge is just an island

2164
01:14:00,630 --> 01:14:00,159
in an ocean of ignorance we we know so

2165
01:14:04,149 --> 01:14:00,640
little

2166
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:04,159
and the way to for us to maintain

2167
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:05,840
the integrity of science is to stay

2168
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:07,920
modest and say look we we don't know so

2169
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:08,719
much

2170
01:14:12,070 --> 01:14:10,320
and and it's work in progress and

2171
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:12,080
sometimes we may be wrong so let's be

2172
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:14,400
open-minded and let's continue to

2173
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:17,120
collect evidence and and make progress

2174
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:17,920
through that

2175
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:19,360
why does girls in completeness theorem

2176
01:14:22,229 --> 01:14:20,960
have anything to do with

2177
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,239
whether or not we can learn uh

2178
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:24,560
fundamental laws because

2179
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:26,400
what ghetto demonstrated is that you

2180
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:28,080
cannot build a

2181
01:14:35,669 --> 01:14:31,679
a self-consistent logical

2182
01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:35,679
system that uh that that

2183
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:38,480
can be proven uh and and and be

2184
01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:40,239
self-contained so to speak

2185
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:41,840
i see i see you you're talking about

2186
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:43,280
whether or not we can prove that

2187
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:44,960
our theory of everything is the theory

2188
01:14:49,669 --> 01:14:46,800
of everything so there will always be

2189
01:14:53,430 --> 01:14:49,679
some loopholes even at the logical level

2190
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:53,440
uh but what i'm referring to in addition

2191
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:56,000
to that is the fact that uh

2192
01:15:01,590 --> 01:14:59,840
reality you know it will take us a long

2193
01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:01,600
while before we figure out all the

2194
01:15:06,550 --> 01:15:03,760
details of reality through experiments

2195
01:15:07,830 --> 01:15:06,560
in addition to the logical issues i

2196
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,840
recall you mentioned

2197
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:09,600
that science sorry that religion can

2198
01:15:12,470 --> 01:15:11,199
learn from science obviously in the

2199
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:12,480
sense that we investigate nature it

2200
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:13,840
tells us more about

2201
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:15,840
god as well as it allows us a deeper

2202
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:17,760
appreciation of that nature

2203
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:20,159
and this is an old view actually which

2204
01:15:22,630 --> 01:15:21,679
says that if you have an interpretation

2205
01:15:25,669 --> 01:15:22,640
of the bible

2206
01:15:26,070 --> 01:15:25,679
the christian bible and you find that

2207
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:26,080
nature

2208
01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:27,520
contradicts that then it's not that

2209
01:15:30,149 --> 01:15:28,640
nature is wrong is that your

2210
01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:30,159
interpretation of the bible is wrong

2211
01:15:33,430 --> 01:15:31,679
nature is always right because nature is

2212
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:33,440
what god made

2213
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:35,840
nature is god in some way actually so

2214
01:15:37,830 --> 01:15:36,560
then i'm wondering

2215
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:37,840
that means that religion can learn from

2216
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:39,920
science okay can science

2217
01:15:47,030 --> 01:15:43,440
learn from religion and if so how

2218
01:15:49,030 --> 01:15:47,040
well yeah so you know

2219
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:49,040
being a physicist is just like trying to

2220
01:15:52,630 --> 01:15:50,239
figure out

2221
01:15:54,070 --> 01:15:52,640
what a building is is made of you know

2222
01:15:56,070 --> 01:15:54,080
you're trying to figure out

2223
01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:56,080
the bricks and mortar that make the

2224
01:15:59,110 --> 01:15:57,679
building that's the fundamental laws of

2225
01:16:00,630 --> 01:15:59,120
physics and

2226
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:00,640
uh when we look at the universe we're

2227
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:02,320
trying to figure out what it's made of

2228
01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:03,760
what the composition of the universe

2229
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:06,159
what are the laws that are governing it

2230
01:16:10,390 --> 01:16:08,640
and then lo and behold we find that the

2231
01:16:13,510 --> 01:16:10,400
most most of the matter in the universe

2232
01:16:16,390 --> 01:16:13,520
is in some form that we don't know what

2233
01:16:18,390 --> 01:16:16,400
what what it is and we are not made of

2234
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:18,400
it it's called dark matter so we still

2235
01:16:22,229 --> 01:16:20,560
have to figure it out

2236
01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:22,239
you know it's a puzzle and we're trying

2237
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:24,000
to figure out uh

2238
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:26,880
also the laws that govern the behavior

2239
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:28,480
of the universe

2240
01:16:33,830 --> 01:16:31,600
but if you look at the building

2241
01:16:36,149 --> 01:16:33,840
there is more to it than the bricks and

2242
01:16:39,270 --> 01:16:36,159
mortar that make the building

2243
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:39,280
the there is the design and there is the

2244
01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:42,320
uh purpose of the building and there is

2245
01:16:46,229 --> 01:16:43,840
the meaning of the building

2246
01:16:48,630 --> 01:16:46,239
you know and that goes beyond physics

2247
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:48,640
that's the metaphysics now a physicist

2248
01:16:52,229 --> 01:16:50,719
can take a practical approach and say i

2249
01:16:53,910 --> 01:16:52,239
don't really care about that

2250
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,920
i want to figure out how reality

2251
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:55,280
operates because that's the only

2252
01:16:59,189 --> 01:16:57,280
tangible thing that i can later use in

2253
01:17:01,750 --> 01:16:59,199
developing technology

2254
01:17:02,310 --> 01:17:01,760
uh you know i i don't want to think

2255
01:17:04,550 --> 01:17:02,320
about

2256
01:17:05,430 --> 01:17:04,560
things that i cannot test empirically

2257
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:05,440
like

2258
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:08,880
you know that involve beauty

2259
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,719
is the building beautiful is the

2260
01:17:13,669 --> 01:17:12,640
building serving a bigger purpose that's

2261
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:13,679
that's not of my

2262
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:16,880
interest but if you're an architect

2263
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:18,640
right and you care mostly about that you

2264
01:17:23,669 --> 01:17:20,320
don't care about the bricks and mortar

2265
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:23,679
uh as an architect you you draw a blue

2266
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:26,480
blueprint of a building and you know in

2267
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:27,520
principle

2268
01:17:30,870 --> 01:17:30,320
the con construction workers could use

2269
01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:30,880
different

2270
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:33,920
materials to to make that

2271
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:35,760
uh of course the materials affect the

2272
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:37,360
durability of the building and so forth

2273
01:17:45,030 --> 01:17:38,080
but

2274
01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:45,040
it appears and and functions and uh so

2275
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:46,560
from the point of view of an architect

2276
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:48,159
it's a completely different question you

2277
01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:48,400
know

2278
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:51,199
than from the point of construction work

2279
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:53,280
what the building represents and

2280
01:17:57,669 --> 01:17:57,120
so the way i i see that is that reality

2281
01:18:00,709 --> 01:17:57,679
you know it

2282
01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,719
has many facets to it and

2283
01:18:04,390 --> 01:18:02,640
one of the facets is indeed what the

2284
01:18:06,870 --> 01:18:04,400
physics is dealing with

2285
01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:06,880
but another facet is what the humanities

2286
01:18:09,990 --> 01:18:08,000
are dealing with and

2287
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:10,000
and that include includes philosophy and

2288
01:18:15,270 --> 01:18:11,280
theology and

2289
01:18:17,270 --> 01:18:15,280
religion and then you know as a human

2290
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:17,280
you are incomplete if you were not to

2291
01:18:21,270 --> 01:18:19,120
consider all the facets

2292
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:21,280
i mean you can of course narrow yourself

2293
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:23,120
to one of them and just say i don't care

2294
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:24,960
about anything else

2295
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:27,120
that's fine but that's uh in a way

2296
01:18:30,709 --> 01:18:28,560
narrow-minded you know

2297
01:18:32,550 --> 01:18:30,719
it's just like looking at a small piece

2298
01:18:33,669 --> 01:18:32,560
of the of the big picture and i think

2299
01:18:36,470 --> 01:18:33,679
you're not

2300
01:18:38,390 --> 01:18:36,480
um fully satisfied living like that i

2301
01:18:41,510 --> 01:18:38,400
mean i don't think

2302
01:18:43,350 --> 01:18:41,520
uh that ignoring the humanities is a

2303
01:18:45,669 --> 01:18:43,360
good practice

2304
01:18:47,669 --> 01:18:45,679
i'm reminded by aristotle who had a

2305
01:18:48,630 --> 01:18:47,679
concept of causation which unified what

2306
01:18:50,790 --> 01:18:48,640
you're referring to

2307
01:18:52,709 --> 01:18:50,800
so material cause efficient cause formal

2308
01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:52,719
and final so the material is what you

2309
01:18:55,990 --> 01:18:54,159
brick some order and then the efficient

2310
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:56,000
is essentially causation as we

2311
01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:57,760
understand it as physicists and the

2312
01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:59,520
formal is okay the

2313
01:19:02,870 --> 01:19:01,199
architecture and then the final is the

2314
01:19:04,630 --> 01:19:02,880
purpose of it so you're saying we've

2315
01:19:06,149 --> 01:19:04,640
forgotten about formal and final as

2316
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:06,159
physicists or as

2317
01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:08,480
materialists in some way but then

2318
01:19:12,310 --> 01:19:10,640
aristotle's causation was secular

2319
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:12,320
and what i was wondering is how can

2320
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:13,920
science learn from religion

2321
01:19:17,110 --> 01:19:16,159
and that to me doesn't unless you want

2322
01:19:19,830 --> 01:19:17,120
to call what

2323
01:19:21,189 --> 01:19:19,840
aristotle was doing as religious where's

2324
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:21,199
traditional religion in that

2325
01:19:24,470 --> 01:19:23,440
in your answer okay so traditional

2326
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:24,480
religion that

2327
01:19:28,470 --> 01:19:26,560
has a god that looks over your shoulder

2328
01:19:31,590 --> 01:19:28,480
and affects what happens to you

2329
01:19:32,790 --> 01:19:31,600
you know that is you know that you can

2330
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:32,800
falsify if you

2331
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:35,440
you know in principle bad things happen

2332
01:19:39,270 --> 01:19:36,000
to good

2333
01:19:43,350 --> 01:19:39,280
people and vice versa and uh

2334
01:19:45,590 --> 01:19:43,360
and you know you can operate

2335
01:19:47,110 --> 01:19:45,600
if you are using the scientific method

2336
01:19:49,110 --> 01:19:47,120
uh you can test

2337
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:49,120
those predictions you know if if there

2338
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:50,880
is a way by which you can forecast what

2339
01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:52,320
will happen

2340
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:54,320
and you see that that not happening that

2341
01:19:58,790 --> 01:19:55,760
that

2342
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,800
or you know if the biblical story of

2343
01:20:02,390 --> 01:20:00,239
abraham in the bible if

2344
01:20:04,709 --> 01:20:02,400
abraham heard the voice of god and he

2345
01:20:06,629 --> 01:20:04,719
had a cell phone where he had a

2346
01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:06,639
voice memo app and he would have pressed

2347
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:08,320
the button he could have recorded the

2348
01:20:11,669 --> 01:20:09,600
voice of god so

2349
01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:11,679
you know it in principle it's possible

2350
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:13,280
to test some of these

2351
01:20:17,510 --> 01:20:16,400
direct interactions uh between a divine

2352
01:20:19,830 --> 01:20:17,520
entity

2353
01:20:21,669 --> 01:20:19,840
and and the human but if you believe

2354
01:20:22,229 --> 01:20:21,679
more in the concept the philosophical

2355
01:20:25,990 --> 01:20:22,239
concept

2356
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:26,000
like spinoza did where he identified

2357
01:20:30,870 --> 01:20:29,280
god with nature and

2358
01:20:32,950 --> 01:20:30,880
you know there is something to it

2359
01:20:34,870 --> 01:20:32,960
because nature itself is not completely

2360
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:34,880
random you know it's organized and

2361
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:36,719
that's quite striking that the laws of

2362
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:38,480
physics create

2363
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:40,480
some order in the universe that

2364
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:42,480
otherwise would not exist and

2365
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:44,159
the fact that the same laws of physics

2366
01:20:49,590 --> 01:20:46,080
that we find here on earth apply

2367
01:20:51,270 --> 01:20:49,600
everywhere is remarkable in my view

2368
01:20:53,030 --> 01:20:51,280
and you know discovering the laws of

2369
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:53,040
physics gives you a sense of

2370
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:56,080
oh of the type that a religious person

2371
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:57,920
may feel

2372
01:21:02,149 --> 01:21:00,480
you know because you are feeling

2373
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:02,159
something about nature that you

2374
01:21:05,430 --> 01:21:03,120
uncovered that

2375
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:05,440
is remarkable that applies everywhere

2376
01:21:11,030 --> 01:21:07,760
and it's much greater than we are

2377
01:21:13,510 --> 01:21:11,040
because it applies everywhere so um

2378
01:21:14,149 --> 01:21:13,520
you can call it a religious sense a

2379
01:21:16,470 --> 01:21:14,159
sense of

2380
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:16,480
oh but you're doing it through a

2381
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:17,600
scientific lens

2382
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:19,920
and frankly it's not obvious to me that

2383
01:21:24,629 --> 01:21:22,320
there is a bigger meaning to life

2384
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:24,639
uh you know like the because if you

2385
01:21:27,830 --> 01:21:26,480
think about the meanings that we assign

2386
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:27,840
to life

2387
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:31,760
they're usually confined to earth

2388
01:21:35,590 --> 01:21:34,719
all of our ambitions are confined to

2389
01:21:38,229 --> 01:21:35,600
earth

2390
01:21:39,030 --> 01:21:38,239
and within a billion years the sun will

2391
01:21:42,229 --> 01:21:39,040
boil off

2392
01:21:43,270 --> 01:21:42,239
all the oceans on earth so nothing that

2393
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:43,280
we care about

2394
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:46,560
that that is dear to our heart will stay

2395
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:49,040
around for more than a billion years so

2396
01:21:54,550 --> 01:21:50,080
then you ask yourself

2397
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:54,560
is that really a valuable meaning

2398
01:21:58,310 --> 01:21:56,239
something that will go away okay it will

2399
01:22:00,229 --> 01:21:58,320
go away in a billion years not in a

2400
01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:00,239
in a hundred years but qualitatively

2401
01:22:03,990 --> 01:22:01,760
speaking

2402
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:04,000
it will go away it's just like something

2403
01:22:07,750 --> 01:22:05,840
that goes away in a week

2404
01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:07,760
i mean it may be meaningful for a while

2405
01:22:13,030 --> 01:22:10,080
but then it's not anymore so

2406
01:22:14,709 --> 01:22:13,040
there is no absolute meaning to our

2407
01:22:15,830 --> 01:22:14,719
existence if you think about the big

2408
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:15,840
picture

2409
01:22:20,790 --> 01:22:19,280
and you know one thing that people ask

2410
01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:20,800
me what is the one thing you would

2411
01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:23,600
like to ask an alien if you were to be

2412
01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:25,360
in contact that is the question i would

2413
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:27,440
like to ask is there a meaning to this

2414
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:29,280
or what is the what is the meaning of

2415
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:31,760
this play and as i said at the beginning

2416
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:33,920
we are put on the stage like actors

2417
01:22:38,149 --> 01:22:35,760
without a script

2418
01:22:39,270 --> 01:22:38,159
what's the play about i would like to

2419
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:39,280
know that

2420
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:41,600
do you think that because we can zoom

2421
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:43,280
out and say that over across a billion

2422
01:22:46,470 --> 01:22:44,480
years let's say that

2423
01:22:48,149 --> 01:22:46,480
will no longer be here therefore it's

2424
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:48,159
meaningless do you think that

2425
01:22:51,189 --> 01:22:49,520
that means it's meaningless or do you

2426
01:22:51,990 --> 01:22:51,199
think that means that that view that we

2427
01:22:54,390 --> 01:22:52,000
zoom out and look

2428
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:54,400
at our lives across a billion years that

2429
01:22:59,270 --> 01:22:56,639
that is not a way that we should view

2430
01:23:01,910 --> 01:22:59,280
ourselves the reason i'm saying that is

2431
01:23:04,629 --> 01:23:01,920
if we say that it's meaningless because

2432
01:23:05,990 --> 01:23:04,639
there's a there's an end to it then why

2433
01:23:07,750 --> 01:23:06,000
can't we just go

2434
01:23:09,110 --> 01:23:07,760
to a holocaust museum and say well their

2435
01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:09,120
suffering didn't matter because there

2436
01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:11,040
was an end to it anyway

2437
01:23:14,550 --> 01:23:12,560
like why can't we just apply that even

2438
01:23:18,070 --> 01:23:14,560
more locally and there is a meaning

2439
01:23:20,629 --> 01:23:18,080
but it's a temporary of course and um

2440
01:23:21,270 --> 01:23:20,639
and of course it it you know it means uh

2441
01:23:23,590 --> 01:23:21,280
the world

2442
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:23,600
to us because we are also short-lived

2443
01:23:28,390 --> 01:23:25,440
you know we we live just

2444
01:23:29,270 --> 01:23:28,400
for decades and you know 100 years or so

2445
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:29,280
uh

2446
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:32,560
and um so during that time you know

2447
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:34,000
that's what matters to us

2448
01:23:37,510 --> 01:23:35,600
what happens during that time and that's

2449
01:23:39,030 --> 01:23:37,520
extreme but when i was referring to

2450
01:23:40,550 --> 01:23:39,040
meaning i was referring to something

2451
01:23:43,350 --> 01:23:40,560
bigger that is

2452
01:23:44,870 --> 01:23:43,360
that is not going to go away you know

2453
01:23:47,590 --> 01:23:44,880
something that stays forever

2454
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:47,600
and that's the thing that we need to

2455
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:49,679
give up on i think

2456
01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:52,800
and and again uh staying modest you know

2457
01:23:58,070 --> 01:23:54,080
i think

2458
01:24:00,550 --> 01:23:58,080
it allows you not to want too much

2459
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:00,560
you know not to think that oh there you

2460
01:24:03,510 --> 01:24:02,560
know i really want something that will

2461
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:03,520
stay forever

2462
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:05,199
perhaps we should yeah as you say

2463
01:24:08,790 --> 01:24:07,120
perhaps we should admit that

2464
01:24:10,470 --> 01:24:08,800
everything is temporary everything

2465
01:24:12,310 --> 01:24:10,480
changes all the time

2466
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:12,320
we should just adapt to changing

2467
01:24:15,189 --> 01:24:14,159
circumstances and the meaning that we

2468
01:24:16,950 --> 01:24:15,199
have is

2469
01:24:18,709 --> 01:24:16,960
always short-lived and we should be

2470
01:24:20,629 --> 01:24:18,719
happy about that you know we can enjoy

2471
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:20,639
good food when we eat it

2472
01:24:24,629 --> 01:24:22,719
we can enjoy the company of friends when

2473
01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:24,639
we have them around

2474
01:24:28,790 --> 01:24:27,360
uh and after a while it goes away that's

2475
01:24:31,750 --> 01:24:28,800
okay that's that's the way

2476
01:24:33,669 --> 01:24:31,760
life is and if we we don't aspire for a

2477
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:33,679
meaning that is beyond that

2478
01:24:41,110 --> 01:24:39,510
something i was toying with was i wonder

2479
01:24:42,950 --> 01:24:41,120
if there's a way that the world of

2480
01:24:44,629 --> 01:24:42,960
experience can last forever

2481
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:44,639
and the reason is let's say in general

2482
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:46,560
relativity right beside a black hole

2483
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:49,120
you can watch your person your friend

2484
01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:50,480
enter the black hole infinitely for the

2485
01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:51,520
rest of time

2486
01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:52,880
obviously they'd have to send photons

2487
01:24:56,229 --> 01:24:54,639
back to you but you can watch them it's

2488
01:24:57,030 --> 01:24:56,239
almost as if they're frozen right at the

2489
01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:57,040
event horizon

2490
01:25:00,790 --> 01:24:58,880
but then for them it's as if they passed

2491
01:25:03,189 --> 01:25:00,800
into the black hole now let's imagine in

2492
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,199
reverse right before you're about to die

2493
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:05,520
your experience of life gets stretched

2494
01:25:09,590 --> 01:25:06,800
infinitely

2495
01:25:09,910 --> 01:25:09,600
to everyone else it's as if it ended but

2496
01:25:11,350 --> 01:25:09,920
then

2497
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:11,360
in just like in general relativity you

2498
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:13,360
can't say that your frame of reference

2499
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,880
is the correct one that they're your

2500
01:25:17,030 --> 01:25:16,320
friends is just as valid so i'm

2501
01:25:19,350 --> 01:25:17,040
wondering

2502
01:25:20,790 --> 01:25:19,360
does your experience it's not something

2503
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:20,800
we can test but i'm wondering if right

2504
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:22,239
before you die

2505
01:25:25,030 --> 01:25:23,760
does it get stretched infinitely and

2506
01:25:26,629 --> 01:25:25,040
that's one of the reasons why they say

2507
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:26,639
heaven and hell

2508
01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:30,719
is dependent on how you live your life

2509
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:32,000
right now because if you live

2510
01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:33,840
as if you're in heaven or you live

2511
01:25:36,629 --> 01:25:35,440
properly or you live as if you're in

2512
01:25:38,550 --> 01:25:36,639
hell and you hate everyone

2513
01:25:40,149 --> 01:25:38,560
if you were to die you're going to feel

2514
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:40,159
that stretched out for the rest of

2515
01:25:43,030 --> 01:25:41,920
your life now you won't be able to see

2516
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:43,040
other people but somehow

2517
01:25:47,189 --> 01:25:45,120
phenomenologically or experientially

2518
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:47,199
it will get stretched and that's a huge

2519
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:48,400
speculative jump

2520
01:25:52,550 --> 01:25:49,920
well that's that's an interesting

2521
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:52,560
thought but if you ask me for my opinion

2522
01:25:56,070 --> 01:25:55,360
i think that we are just our body is

2523
01:25:58,550 --> 01:25:56,080
just like

2524
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:58,560
a computer and when you unplug it from

2525
01:26:03,189 --> 01:26:00,880
the wall it shuts off all the systems

2526
01:26:04,070 --> 01:26:03,199
shut off and that's the experience of

2527
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:04,080
death

2528
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:07,120
basically your you know your your cord

2529
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:08,080
is taken out of the

2530
01:26:12,390 --> 01:26:11,120
outlet do you have any ideas as to

2531
01:26:14,629 --> 01:26:12,400
consciousness or

2532
01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:14,639
its origins is it emerged is

2533
01:26:18,950 --> 01:26:16,480
consciousness emergent

2534
01:26:20,830 --> 01:26:18,960
yeah that's what i think i think um that

2535
01:26:24,149 --> 01:26:20,840
we are very complex

2536
01:26:27,910 --> 01:26:24,159
systems and we are subject

2537
01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:27,920
to a lot of uh inputs

2538
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:30,239
you know from our environment and that's

2539
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:31,280
what makes us

2540
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:33,520
unpredictable so when people talk about

2541
01:26:37,110 --> 01:26:34,800
free will it's

2542
01:26:38,709 --> 01:26:37,120
sort of the confluence of a lot of

2543
01:26:40,550 --> 01:26:38,719
ingredients

2544
01:26:42,229 --> 01:26:40,560
each of which you know can change the

2545
01:26:44,709 --> 01:26:42,239
outcome and

2546
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:44,719
as a result we are not that predictable

2547
01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:45,280
and

2548
01:26:48,870 --> 01:26:47,040
of course according to quantum mechanics

2549
01:26:52,149 --> 01:26:48,880
things are not predictable

2550
01:26:55,750 --> 01:26:52,159
there is a probabilistic outcome

2551
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:55,760
but in general you know i think

2552
01:27:02,149 --> 01:27:00,000
both free will and consciousness are

2553
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:02,159
incarnations of very complex systems so

2554
01:27:06,229 --> 01:27:03,120
it's it's the way that

2555
01:27:07,830 --> 01:27:06,239
a complex system the human appears uh

2556
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:07,840
but it doesn't mean that the building

2557
01:27:12,470 --> 01:27:09,600
blocks of making a human

2558
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:12,480
are anything different than you know the

2559
01:27:15,910 --> 01:27:13,840
physical elements

2560
01:27:17,189 --> 01:27:15,920
that we know about you just put them

2561
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:17,199
together in some way

2562
01:27:20,550 --> 01:27:19,280
and you get phenomenal like

2563
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:20,560
consciousness

2564
01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:23,520
which by which we mean that the the

2565
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:26,880
system itself recognizes that it exists

2566
01:27:32,470 --> 01:27:29,600
uh and acts based on the feedback that

2567
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:32,480
it gets from reality

2568
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:35,520
but in principle i can imagine

2569
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:37,679
us constructing entities that will

2570
01:27:41,350 --> 01:27:39,360
behave the same way

2571
01:27:42,870 --> 01:27:41,360
in the future you know robots that are

2572
01:27:46,470 --> 01:27:42,880
sufficiently advanced with

2573
01:27:50,229 --> 01:27:46,480
ai and so forth i don't see a

2574
01:27:50,870 --> 01:27:50,239
qualitative difference between the human

2575
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:50,880
body

2576
01:27:55,110 --> 01:27:53,840
and and the materials that that it's

2577
01:27:56,709 --> 01:27:55,120
made of it's just that there are

2578
01:27:58,629 --> 01:27:56,719
the materials are organized in a way

2579
01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:58,639
that gives the human body special

2580
01:28:03,350 --> 01:27:59,679
qualities

2581
01:28:06,390 --> 01:28:03,360
and abilities but

2582
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:06,400
when we die it's just like taking the

2583
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:09,520
computer chord out of the outlet i'm

2584
01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:11,120
sure you've heard of the hard problem of

2585
01:28:14,870 --> 01:28:12,159
consciousness

2586
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:14,880
that is how can we get experience from

2587
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:15,840
what's

2588
01:28:20,229 --> 01:28:18,719
fundamentally not experiencing do you

2589
01:28:21,430 --> 01:28:20,239
have any ideas as to that

2590
01:28:22,709 --> 01:28:21,440
you mentioned well when you have a

2591
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:22,719
feedback when you have a system looking

2592
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:23,440
at itself but then that's

2593
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:25,600
self-consciousness i'm just referring to

2594
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:28,000
experience in and of itself yeah because

2595
01:28:33,189 --> 01:28:29,600
the experience is being

2596
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:33,199
sensed by our body and you know our body

2597
01:28:37,030 --> 01:28:33,600
can

2598
01:28:39,350 --> 01:28:37,040
that

2599
01:28:40,830 --> 01:28:39,360
do not really exist outside of the body

2600
01:28:44,310 --> 01:28:40,840
and they are just

2601
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:44,320
self-created so you can you can imagine

2602
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:46,800
phenomena like that

2603
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:49,760
but it's all related to physical

2604
01:28:56,709 --> 01:28:55,189
do you believe that there are wormholes

2605
01:28:59,510 --> 01:28:56,719
or stable wormholes

2606
01:29:00,790 --> 01:28:59,520
possibly aliens are using them no i at

2607
01:29:02,709 --> 01:29:00,800
the moment

2608
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:02,719
you know there are people suggesting how

2609
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:05,520
to construct wormholes how to

2610
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:08,080
perhaps build time machines and but all

2611
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:09,280
of these suggestions

2612
01:29:14,709 --> 01:29:12,480
again are highly speculative because we

2613
01:29:15,030 --> 01:29:14,719
don't have a quantum mechanical theory

2614
01:29:18,070 --> 01:29:15,040
of

2615
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:18,080
gravity and without it um you know these

2616
01:29:22,390 --> 01:29:19,120
ideas may not

2617
01:29:25,030 --> 01:29:22,400
hold water you know so let's put it this

2618
01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:25,040
way we have no way of designing an

2619
01:29:28,870 --> 01:29:27,199
engineering project to build either a

2620
01:29:29,830 --> 01:29:28,880
time machine or a wormhole the current

2621
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:29,840
knowledge is

2622
01:29:33,270 --> 01:29:32,880
very sketchy and the proposal that we

2623
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:33,280
have

2624
01:29:37,110 --> 01:29:35,520
in various papers are all very

2625
01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:37,120
speculative

2626
01:29:41,110 --> 01:29:38,800
as for the fine-tuning of the universe

2627
01:29:42,790 --> 01:29:41,120
do you have any inklings as to why

2628
01:29:46,070 --> 01:29:42,800
it is the way that it is do you take lee

2629
01:29:49,830 --> 01:29:46,080
smullin's evolutionary black hole model

2630
01:29:51,430 --> 01:29:49,840
no um i you know i think that the

2631
01:29:53,430 --> 01:29:51,440
conditions we have in the universe were

2632
01:29:55,750 --> 01:29:53,440
dictated by

2633
01:29:56,709 --> 01:29:55,760
how it started uh you know around the

2634
01:29:58,629 --> 01:29:56,719
big bang

2635
01:30:00,709 --> 01:29:58,639
and so you know just like cosmic

2636
01:30:01,750 --> 01:30:00,719
inflation tries to explain various facts

2637
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:01,760
and

2638
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:03,520
uh once we have a quantum theory of

2639
01:30:06,070 --> 01:30:05,600
gravity we figure out where the universe

2640
01:30:07,990 --> 01:30:06,080
came from

2641
01:30:09,910 --> 01:30:08,000
you know what is the womb that the

2642
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:09,920
umbilical cord of the universe was

2643
01:30:13,350 --> 01:30:11,199
connected to

2644
01:30:15,110 --> 01:30:13,360
and that would explain to us why it has

2645
01:30:17,430 --> 01:30:15,120
the properties that it has

2646
01:30:19,350 --> 01:30:17,440
so rather than guess it i would rather

2647
01:30:19,990 --> 01:30:19,360
go to that womb that created the

2648
01:30:22,149 --> 01:30:20,000
universe and

2649
01:30:23,590 --> 01:30:22,159
asked what are the reasons that we have

2650
01:30:24,950 --> 01:30:23,600
the conditions we have

2651
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:24,960
so you believe that we can derive the

2652
01:30:29,510 --> 01:30:26,960
fundamental constants in some way

2653
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:29,520
potentially yeah if we figure out what

2654
01:30:32,229 --> 01:30:30,320
happened

2655
01:30:35,350 --> 01:30:32,239
before the big bang using a quantum

2656
01:30:37,110 --> 01:30:35,360
theory of gravity perhaps

2657
01:30:38,950 --> 01:30:37,120
once again what we find in the universe

2658
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:38,960
will be emerging out of those

2659
01:30:42,629 --> 01:30:40,639
conditions early conditions and the

2660
01:30:43,910 --> 01:30:42,639
theory and the you know the unifying

2661
01:30:46,229 --> 01:30:43,920
theory

2662
01:30:47,510 --> 01:30:46,239
which we don't have at the moment before

2663
01:30:49,910 --> 01:30:47,520
i get to audience questions

2664
01:30:50,950 --> 01:30:49,920
the last question i have well two i want

2665
01:30:52,390 --> 01:30:50,960
to know what you think is

2666
01:30:54,310 --> 01:30:52,400
the difference between wisdom and

2667
01:30:55,669 --> 01:30:54,320
intelligence and then i wanted to know

2668
01:30:57,510 --> 01:30:55,679
what you thought of wigner's

2669
01:30:59,030 --> 01:30:57,520
friends fingers friends thought

2670
01:31:00,390 --> 01:30:59,040
experiment or the thought experiment of

2671
01:31:00,709 --> 01:31:00,400
vigner's friend i'm sure you've heard of

2672
01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:00,719
it

2673
01:31:04,070 --> 01:31:02,880
about the collapse of the wave function

2674
01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:04,080
yeah so uh

2675
01:31:07,990 --> 01:31:06,159
first with respect to intelligence and

2676
01:31:12,550 --> 01:31:08,000
wisdom there is a very

2677
01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:12,560
uh big difference between them wisdom

2678
01:31:16,470 --> 01:31:15,120
is the ability to to identify the

2679
01:31:19,750 --> 01:31:16,480
essential

2680
01:31:21,590 --> 01:31:19,760
elements necessary to to answer

2681
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:21,600
questions and and learn about

2682
01:31:27,590 --> 01:31:24,960
about the world so

2683
01:31:28,629 --> 01:31:27,600
it's a way of improving the efficiency

2684
01:31:31,350 --> 01:31:28,639
of us

2685
01:31:32,550 --> 01:31:31,360
figuring out the truth you know and

2686
01:31:37,110 --> 01:31:32,560
someone

2687
01:31:39,270 --> 01:31:37,120
that is wise gives you a shortcut

2688
01:31:42,950 --> 01:31:39,280
you can be very intelligent and just

2689
01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:42,960
examine all the exits from the highway

2690
01:31:47,189 --> 01:31:45,040
uh many of them would lead you into bad

2691
01:31:49,669 --> 01:31:47,199
neighborhoods

2692
01:31:50,550 --> 01:31:49,679
uh but if you are wise you will try to

2693
01:31:53,590 --> 01:31:50,560
figure out

2694
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:53,600
which exit is the right one

2695
01:32:00,070 --> 01:31:56,880
and um so

2696
01:32:03,669 --> 01:32:00,080
so intelligence

2697
01:32:05,430 --> 01:32:03,679
may be an essential skill in pursuing

2698
01:32:07,669 --> 01:32:05,440
science

2699
01:32:09,510 --> 01:32:07,679
and you can become a world expert in a

2700
01:32:11,110 --> 01:32:09,520
particular niche

2701
01:32:14,149 --> 01:32:11,120
just like taking an exit from the

2702
01:32:16,790 --> 01:32:14,159
highway and that exit you can become

2703
01:32:18,950 --> 01:32:16,800
the world expert but it's not

2704
01:32:20,550 --> 01:32:18,960
necessarily the niche that matters the

2705
01:32:23,830 --> 01:32:20,560
most

2706
01:32:26,550 --> 01:32:23,840
and if you are wise you can figure out

2707
01:32:28,149 --> 01:32:26,560
which niche matters the most

2708
01:32:29,910 --> 01:32:28,159
if you're wise how do you determine

2709
01:32:31,270 --> 01:32:29,920
which one matters

2710
01:32:32,550 --> 01:32:31,280
which one is the right one i imagine

2711
01:32:33,189 --> 01:32:32,560
that depends on the goal but then i'm

2712
01:32:34,870 --> 01:32:33,199
wondering

2713
01:32:36,709 --> 01:32:34,880
well how do you decide on the goal you

2714
01:32:38,229 --> 01:32:36,719
have just what allows you to survive

2715
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:38,239
you have to decide about the guiding

2716
01:32:43,830 --> 01:32:40,960
principles first so

2717
01:32:45,510 --> 01:32:43,840
for example to some people what matters

2718
01:32:48,550 --> 01:32:45,520
the most are

2719
01:32:51,669 --> 01:32:48,560
subjects of relevance to society

2720
01:32:53,510 --> 01:32:51,679
you know if it has an impact on society

2721
01:32:55,350 --> 01:32:53,520
because after all we live in a society

2722
01:32:58,229 --> 01:32:55,360
you know and whether we

2723
01:32:59,270 --> 01:32:58,239
address um how many extra dimensions

2724
01:33:01,910 --> 01:32:59,280
exist or

2725
01:33:03,110 --> 01:33:01,920
whether we address how to find a vaccine

2726
01:33:06,070 --> 01:33:03,120
to covet 19

2727
01:33:08,390 --> 01:33:06,080
or you know these are two different

2728
01:33:11,510 --> 01:33:08,400
questions with very different

2729
01:33:14,310 --> 01:33:11,520
impacts on society

2730
01:33:15,430 --> 01:33:14,320
so you might use that when you evaluate

2731
01:33:18,229 --> 01:33:15,440
what you want to do

2732
01:33:19,590 --> 01:33:18,239
if you want to help people then you work

2733
01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:19,600
on some

2734
01:33:23,270 --> 01:33:21,520
questions that matter to them now it

2735
01:33:24,390 --> 01:33:23,280
doesn't mean that they all have to be

2736
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:24,400
medical

2737
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:26,320
they could be questions that people care

2738
01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:27,760
about

2739
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:31,920
right right so um in that way

2740
01:33:36,070 --> 01:33:35,040
since the public is funding science you

2741
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:36,080
are paying respect

2742
01:33:41,110 --> 01:33:38,880
to the public if on the other hand you

2743
01:33:42,790 --> 01:33:41,120
ask yourself how many angels can sit on

2744
01:33:45,350 --> 01:33:42,800
the tip of a pin

2745
01:33:46,709 --> 01:33:45,360
and you get funded by the public and

2746
01:33:48,310 --> 01:33:46,719
then you say i don't care what the

2747
01:33:50,870 --> 01:33:48,320
public says and i don't care if i have

2748
01:33:52,870 --> 01:33:50,880
experiments to test my ideas

2749
01:33:55,910 --> 01:33:52,880
then that's a betrayal of the trust that

2750
01:33:58,470 --> 01:33:55,920
the society has in academia

2751
01:33:59,750 --> 01:33:58,480
and that is a good reason for the public

2752
01:34:02,950 --> 01:33:59,760
to say

2753
01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:02,960
that you know academia is part of the

2754
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:04,080
elite

2755
01:34:08,870 --> 01:34:06,239
because because it's divorcing itself

2756
01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:08,880
from the interests of the public

2757
01:34:15,270 --> 01:34:12,719
so being wise is attending

2758
01:34:16,870 --> 01:34:15,280
to the interests of those who found fund

2759
01:34:20,470 --> 01:34:16,880
you

2760
01:34:22,070 --> 01:34:20,480
and that's an example okay what about if

2761
01:34:22,390 --> 01:34:22,080
there's no capitalism there's no funding

2762
01:34:23,910 --> 01:34:22,400
well

2763
01:34:25,110 --> 01:34:23,920
sorry in socialism you're also funded

2764
01:34:27,590 --> 01:34:25,120
there's no money we're hunt

2765
01:34:29,510 --> 01:34:27,600
hunter-gatherers can you be wise

2766
01:34:31,189 --> 01:34:29,520
yeah if you're a hunter and guard you

2767
01:34:32,790 --> 01:34:31,199
still have a purpose right you're trying

2768
01:34:34,870 --> 01:34:32,800
to hunt

2769
01:34:36,790 --> 01:34:34,880
so you're so for that purpose you

2770
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:36,800
develop tools that are relevant

2771
01:34:41,109 --> 01:34:38,560
so instead of the relevance being to

2772
01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:41,119
society to the people that fund you

2773
01:34:48,149 --> 01:34:45,280
here the relevance is to your objectives

2774
01:34:49,830 --> 01:34:48,159
sorry what i'm trying to get at is how

2775
01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:49,840
do you know which goals

2776
01:34:52,950 --> 01:34:51,760
you're you're presuming a goal already

2777
01:34:54,870 --> 01:34:52,960
so what i'm wondering is

2778
01:34:57,109 --> 01:34:54,880
how do you determine which goal you

2779
01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:57,119
should follow oh okay i think well

2780
01:35:00,550 --> 01:34:59,600
the way i determine is personally that

2781
01:35:03,990 --> 01:35:00,560
doesn't mean that

2782
01:35:07,030 --> 01:35:04,000
everyone should operate this way but i i

2783
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:07,040
um pay attention to the goals

2784
01:35:10,070 --> 01:35:08,960
that are most important you know that

2785
01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:10,080
are

2786
01:35:13,430 --> 01:35:12,080
that will make the biggest difference

2787
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:13,440
you see uh

2788
01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:15,199
you can always work on on something in

2789
01:35:18,790 --> 01:35:16,800
the periphery that makes very little

2790
01:35:21,189 --> 01:35:18,800
difference to anyone

2791
01:35:22,950 --> 01:35:21,199
and nobody would bother you and you will

2792
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:22,960
be happy you'll earn your living you go

2793
01:35:26,550 --> 01:35:24,880
to work you will smile

2794
01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:26,560
and people will smile at you and that's

2795
01:35:31,990 --> 01:35:28,960
it but the question is

2796
01:35:34,709 --> 01:35:32,000
does it matter to anyone or to yourself

2797
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:34,719
do you feel will you feel at the age of

2798
01:35:42,790 --> 01:35:37,840
90 that you actually fulfilled your

2799
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:42,800
uh life uh interests and the answer may

2800
01:35:45,270 --> 01:35:43,440
be no

2801
01:35:46,709 --> 01:35:45,280
you should have been more daring more

2802
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:46,719
risk-taking

2803
01:35:50,149 --> 01:35:48,480
more willing to embark on things that

2804
01:35:51,030 --> 01:35:50,159
are difficult that will take a while to

2805
01:35:55,030 --> 01:35:51,040
figure out

2806
01:35:57,750 --> 01:35:55,040
but matter more so i look at myself

2807
01:35:58,070 --> 01:35:57,760
at that stage you know at a late age and

2808
01:36:02,310 --> 01:35:58,080
ask

2809
01:36:04,070 --> 01:36:02,320
what would i advise myself now to do

2810
01:36:06,470 --> 01:36:04,080
that would matter that will make a

2811
01:36:08,629 --> 01:36:06,480
difference and that's what i do

2812
01:36:10,470 --> 01:36:08,639
okay well let's get to some audience

2813
01:36:12,229 --> 01:36:10,480
questions steve scully here says is it

2814
01:36:13,189 --> 01:36:12,239
possible that the universe is infinite

2815
01:36:15,669 --> 01:36:13,199
that there is no

2816
01:36:16,310 --> 01:36:15,679
end to how large or small objects in the

2817
01:36:18,709 --> 01:36:16,320
universe

2818
01:36:20,229 --> 01:36:18,719
can be relative to one another and that

2819
01:36:23,030 --> 01:36:20,239
if the overall system

2820
01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:23,040
is to be comprehensible it is only by us

2821
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:24,000
recognizing how

2822
01:36:28,149 --> 01:36:25,760
all of these apparently separate and

2823
01:36:30,390 --> 01:36:28,159
distinct different systems

2824
01:36:33,189 --> 01:36:30,400
actually share the same underlying

2825
01:36:36,629 --> 01:36:34,870
yes read the question you understood the

2826
01:36:38,790 --> 01:36:36,639
question yeah i understood that

2827
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:38,800
okay well most of the the answer to most

2828
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:40,800
of the question is yes

2829
01:36:45,350 --> 01:36:43,760
it's quite possible that um in each

2830
01:36:46,629 --> 01:36:45,360
direction you know it's an infinite

2831
01:36:49,669 --> 01:36:46,639
series of sizes

2832
01:36:52,870 --> 01:36:49,679
and scales and uh but to me the most

2833
01:36:55,270 --> 01:36:52,880
interesting part of the question is

2834
01:36:57,669 --> 01:36:55,280
will the laws of physics apply

2835
01:37:01,669 --> 01:36:57,679
everywhere the same way

2836
01:37:03,669 --> 01:37:01,679
or will you have and then so far

2837
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:03,679
the amazing thing is that in the region

2838
01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:06,960
that we can see that we can observe

2839
01:37:11,910 --> 01:37:08,800
it appears like the laws of physics

2840
01:37:14,470 --> 01:37:11,920
apply everywhere the same way

2841
01:37:16,629 --> 01:37:14,480
and that that's remarkable but it may

2842
01:37:18,149 --> 01:37:16,639
it's not guaranteed by any means

2843
01:37:19,669 --> 01:37:18,159
and of course people are searching for

2844
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:19,679
deviations

2845
01:37:22,950 --> 01:37:21,440
because if you find a deviation you get

2846
01:37:24,709 --> 01:37:22,960
an overcross right

2847
01:37:25,990 --> 01:37:24,719
right that brings me to a question that

2848
01:37:26,950 --> 01:37:26,000
i have for you but it's more for an

2849
01:37:29,430 --> 01:37:26,960
experimentalist

2850
01:37:30,950 --> 01:37:29,440
do you always need a theory to interpret

2851
01:37:33,030 --> 01:37:30,960
the data or can you just interpret the

2852
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:33,040
data without a theory so for example

2853
01:37:36,470 --> 01:37:34,639
collecting astronomical data we're

2854
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:36,480
assuming that we're at no special

2855
01:37:39,750 --> 01:37:38,080
place in the universe and that the laws

2856
01:37:42,870 --> 01:37:39,760
are pretty much the same

2857
01:37:47,990 --> 01:37:46,950
so can you interpret the data without a

2858
01:37:50,070 --> 01:37:48,000
theory can you even

2859
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:50,080
make sense of the data without a theory

2860
01:37:53,270 --> 01:37:51,600
i don't think so i think

2861
01:37:55,189 --> 01:37:53,280
you always have to have something in the

2862
01:37:59,030 --> 01:37:55,199
back of your mind

2863
01:38:01,990 --> 01:37:59,040
because otherwise the data

2864
01:38:02,629 --> 01:38:02,000
is not telling you anything you have to

2865
01:38:05,109 --> 01:38:02,639
put it in

2866
01:38:07,510 --> 01:38:05,119
in a context so just to give you an

2867
01:38:12,310 --> 01:38:07,520
example

2868
01:38:16,470 --> 01:38:15,910
astrophysical journals used to come in

2869
01:38:20,070 --> 01:38:16,480
print

2870
01:38:22,550 --> 01:38:20,080
it was not on the internet and so i went

2871
01:38:23,750 --> 01:38:22,560
to the library

2872
01:38:25,830 --> 01:38:23,760
at the institute for advanced study at

2873
01:38:29,669 --> 01:38:25,840
princeton and i saw that

2874
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:29,679
before the 1980s there were photographs

2875
01:38:37,430 --> 01:38:33,760
published in print where you can see

2876
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:37,440
giant arcs of light surrounding clusters

2877
01:38:40,870 --> 01:38:38,400
of galaxies and

2878
01:38:42,390 --> 01:38:40,880
people just ignored them the data was

2879
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:42,400
there it was

2880
01:38:46,709 --> 01:38:45,360
it was printed uh you know in images

2881
01:38:50,390 --> 01:38:46,719
that were put on pape

2882
01:38:53,030 --> 01:38:50,400
in papers and nobody asked anything

2883
01:38:54,550 --> 01:38:53,040
about those arcs why are there arcs

2884
01:38:57,590 --> 01:38:54,560
you know like lightning strikes between

2885
01:38:59,990 --> 01:38:57,600
galaxies like sparks almost

2886
01:39:01,830 --> 01:39:00,000
well they look like arcs and then then

2887
01:39:03,350 --> 01:39:01,840
in the 1980s the subject of

2888
01:39:05,910 --> 01:39:03,360
gravitational lensing

2889
01:39:08,390 --> 01:39:05,920
uh became singular and then people

2890
01:39:10,390 --> 01:39:08,400
explained those arcs as

2891
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:10,400
focusing of light by the force of

2892
01:39:14,550 --> 01:39:12,400
gravity you know so you have a cluster

2893
01:39:16,550 --> 01:39:14,560
of galaxies that acts on light

2894
01:39:17,590 --> 01:39:16,560
from a background source behind it let's

2895
01:39:19,510 --> 01:39:17,600
say a galaxy

2896
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:19,520
sits far away behind the cluster and

2897
01:39:21,830 --> 01:39:20,960
then the light that comes from that

2898
01:39:24,470 --> 01:39:21,840
galaxy

2899
01:39:25,189 --> 01:39:24,480
is being gravitationally bent and

2900
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:25,199
focused

2901
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:28,320
at the observer and you end up with what

2902
01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:29,280
is called

2903
01:39:32,790 --> 01:39:31,199
an einstein ring einstein already

2904
01:39:36,470 --> 01:39:32,800
thought that this could happen

2905
01:39:39,990 --> 01:39:36,480
in 1940 so you can get a giant

2906
01:39:43,030 --> 01:39:40,000
arc of a background source that is

2907
01:39:45,430 --> 01:39:43,040
part of sort of a ring of

2908
01:39:46,229 --> 01:39:45,440
uh light that comes from gravitational

2909
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:46,239
lensing and

2910
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:48,400
once they realized that they said oh

2911
01:39:51,109 --> 01:39:50,239
that that's a good explanation for those

2912
01:39:54,229 --> 01:39:51,119
arcs

2913
01:39:56,390 --> 01:39:54,239
before

2914
01:39:58,550 --> 01:39:56,400
and people just didn't think about it in

2915
01:40:00,070 --> 01:39:58,560
that context so you can have data it's

2916
01:40:03,189 --> 01:40:00,080
just without

2917
01:40:04,070 --> 01:40:03,199
a sense of what the data may mean you

2918
01:40:10,149 --> 01:40:04,080
might actually

2919
01:40:14,390 --> 01:40:13,030
362 asks do you still learn math and

2920
01:40:17,189 --> 01:40:14,400
physics in the same way you did

2921
01:40:18,629 --> 01:40:17,199
as you were when you were younger and if

2922
01:40:20,830 --> 01:40:18,639
not how has aging

2923
01:40:22,790 --> 01:40:20,840
and experience changed your learning

2924
01:40:25,990 --> 01:40:22,800
process right so

2925
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:26,000
um i was always i'm not a good example

2926
01:40:29,350 --> 01:40:26,800
because

2927
01:40:30,149 --> 01:40:29,360
from a young age i was always most

2928
01:40:35,189 --> 01:40:30,159
interested in

2929
01:40:38,629 --> 01:40:36,950
the mathematical techniques that are

2930
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:38,639
used to to

2931
01:40:45,270 --> 01:40:41,920
uh perfect them or

2932
01:40:46,470 --> 01:40:45,280
or demonstrate them uh and so um in that

2933
01:40:48,870 --> 01:40:46,480
sense

2934
01:40:51,430 --> 01:40:48,880
uh i'm actually more efficient now than

2935
01:40:54,870 --> 01:40:51,440
i was because

2936
01:40:58,629 --> 01:40:54,880
you know i i i i know the field

2937
01:41:00,790 --> 01:40:58,639
much better and so

2938
01:41:01,750 --> 01:41:00,800
if i were to meet a young version of

2939
01:41:07,270 --> 01:41:01,760
myself

2940
01:41:08,950 --> 01:41:07,280
so i feel that i'm much stronger now

2941
01:41:12,390 --> 01:41:08,960
than i was at a younger age

2942
01:41:14,149 --> 01:41:12,400
uh because i i don't i don't waste as

2943
01:41:15,189 --> 01:41:14,159
much time in directions that would not

2944
01:41:18,229 --> 01:41:15,199
prove

2945
01:41:21,350 --> 01:41:18,239
use fruitful but

2946
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:21,360
in terms of the techniques

2947
01:41:24,390 --> 01:41:23,280
it's true that after a certain age you

2948
01:41:27,510 --> 01:41:24,400
stop

2949
01:41:29,910 --> 01:41:27,520
learning new techniques most people

2950
01:41:30,790 --> 01:41:29,920
and so you continue to use what you've

2951
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:30,800
learned then

2952
01:41:36,070 --> 01:41:33,440
during your studies in you know during

2953
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:36,080
your phd and you continue to use that

2954
01:41:39,990 --> 01:41:38,800
uh but you use it on on subjects that

2955
01:41:43,109 --> 01:41:40,000
are new

2956
01:41:44,550 --> 01:41:43,119
um very few people do learn new

2957
01:41:47,590 --> 01:41:44,560
techniques and and

2958
01:41:48,790 --> 01:41:47,600
by that rejuvenate their skills people

2959
01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:48,800
do that

2960
01:41:52,709 --> 01:41:51,760
but since i was always about ideas uh

2961
01:41:54,790 --> 01:41:52,719
about thinking

2962
01:41:55,750 --> 01:41:54,800
on things that other people do not think

2963
01:41:57,910 --> 01:41:55,760
about

2964
01:41:59,510 --> 01:41:57,920
then the techniques were not

2965
01:42:02,070 --> 01:41:59,520
particularly

2966
01:42:05,270 --> 01:42:02,080
important for me and i remember when i

2967
01:42:07,510 --> 01:42:05,280
came as a postdoc i was asked

2968
01:42:09,270 --> 01:42:07,520
what kind of computer skills you have

2969
01:42:11,189 --> 01:42:09,280
and i said very minimal

2970
01:42:13,189 --> 01:42:11,199
during my phd i just used whatever i

2971
01:42:15,109 --> 01:42:13,199
needed in order to solve

2972
01:42:16,709 --> 01:42:15,119
uh the differential equations that i had

2973
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:16,719
i didn't

2974
01:42:20,709 --> 01:42:18,960
master anything beyond that and the

2975
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:20,719
person who hired me was

2976
01:42:24,629 --> 01:42:23,600
stunned he said how how come you didn't

2977
01:42:28,310 --> 01:42:24,639
learn

2978
01:42:28,790 --> 01:42:28,320
you know and um i should say that i had

2979
01:42:31,270 --> 01:42:28,800
a very

2980
01:42:32,550 --> 01:42:31,280
rather productive career even though i

2981
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:32,560
didn't

2982
01:42:36,550 --> 01:42:34,800
learn much more computer skills since

2983
01:42:39,830 --> 01:42:36,560
then even so

2984
01:42:41,430 --> 01:42:39,840
it's possible yeah because

2985
01:42:43,109 --> 01:42:41,440
a lot of people have the technical

2986
01:42:46,709 --> 01:42:43,119
skills but they lack

2987
01:42:48,709 --> 01:42:46,719
the the imagination of the the ideas

2988
01:42:50,550 --> 01:42:48,719
so you play more in the realm of

2989
01:42:52,470 --> 01:42:50,560
concepts and ideas and how they relate

2990
01:42:55,669 --> 01:42:52,480
than you do with the mathematical

2991
01:42:58,870 --> 01:42:55,679
pedantry yeah so it's sort of like

2992
01:43:01,910 --> 01:42:58,880
you know sketching a blueprint of

2993
01:43:03,350 --> 01:43:01,920
a building rather than building it so

2994
01:43:05,189 --> 01:43:03,360
then who does the mathematical work you

2995
01:43:07,109 --> 01:43:05,199
just give it to a graduate student

2996
01:43:10,229 --> 01:43:07,119
a lot yeah students postdocs a lot of

2997
01:43:11,750 --> 01:43:10,239
people that i collaborate with

2998
01:43:13,030 --> 01:43:11,760
and with regard to learning new

2999
01:43:14,550 --> 01:43:13,040
techniques and constantly staying

3000
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:14,560
updated

3001
01:43:18,149 --> 01:43:17,280
you said that some people do but

3002
01:43:21,350 --> 01:43:18,159
generally

3003
01:43:21,990 --> 01:43:21,360
let's say past the age of 30 or 40 i

3004
01:43:23,590 --> 01:43:22,000
don't know which

3005
01:43:25,669 --> 01:43:23,600
i'm asking you what time do you stop

3006
01:43:27,910 --> 01:43:25,679
doing it and it's it's not this

3007
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:27,920
i know of people that are in their 50s

3008
01:43:30,390 --> 01:43:29,760
that are learning machine learning now

3009
01:43:36,709 --> 01:43:30,400
and

3010
01:43:39,350 --> 01:43:36,719
you know it really is a matter of

3011
01:43:41,510 --> 01:43:39,360
people that enjoy the the you know the

3012
01:43:43,189 --> 01:43:41,520
technical gymnastics and there are some

3013
01:43:45,750 --> 01:43:43,199
people that enjoy that and they're

3014
01:43:47,350 --> 01:43:45,760
they're not not many but i mean they're

3015
01:43:49,350 --> 01:43:47,360
a minority

3016
01:43:50,550 --> 01:43:49,360
do you think that instead of focusing on

3017
01:43:51,990 --> 01:43:50,560
artificial intelligence like you

3018
01:43:54,950 --> 01:43:52,000
mentioned we should focus on wisdom

3019
01:43:55,990 --> 01:43:54,960
so artificial wisdom so ah instead of ai

3020
01:43:57,669 --> 01:43:56,000
do you think that that's something we

3021
01:43:59,189 --> 01:43:57,679
should be focusing on or do you see like

3022
01:43:59,830 --> 01:43:59,199
how the heck would we even start that

3023
01:44:02,310 --> 01:43:59,840
project

3024
01:44:03,910 --> 01:44:02,320
oh i do think that it's interes a very

3025
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:03,920
interesting idea i i haven't thought

3026
01:44:08,550 --> 01:44:06,239
about it before but

3027
01:44:10,950 --> 01:44:08,560
yeah you can think about designing a

3028
01:44:14,149 --> 01:44:10,960
system that will be wise

3029
01:44:18,390 --> 01:44:15,510
rather than go and explore all

3030
01:44:22,390 --> 01:44:21,030
brian keating asks our mutual friend

3031
01:44:23,590 --> 01:44:22,400
brian keating and by the way for those

3032
01:44:25,750 --> 01:44:23,600
listening brian keating

3033
01:44:27,270 --> 01:44:25,760
a link to his youtube channel be below

3034
01:44:28,790 --> 01:44:27,280
he said i'd love to know what his daily

3035
01:44:31,030 --> 01:44:28,800
routine is so that is you

3036
01:44:32,950 --> 01:44:31,040
and whether you've expected and even

3037
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:32,960
regret the backlash

3038
01:44:36,709 --> 01:44:35,040
to your new fame so daily routine and

3039
01:44:37,270 --> 01:44:36,719
the backlash and how you feel about it

3040
01:44:40,070 --> 01:44:37,280
yeah well

3041
01:44:40,470 --> 01:44:40,080
um every since the pandemic started um

3042
01:44:43,669 --> 01:44:40,480
since

3043
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:43,679
uh it's more than a year now uh every

3044
01:44:48,310 --> 01:44:45,040
morning at 5am

3045
01:44:51,270 --> 01:44:48,320
i go out and jog in the company of birds

3046
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:51,280
ducks and rabbits and wild turkeys they

3047
01:44:54,790 --> 01:44:52,480
are they are very loud i

3048
01:44:56,629 --> 01:44:54,800
i see the same wild turkeys for a year

3049
01:44:59,109 --> 01:44:56,639
now along my path

3050
01:45:00,950 --> 01:44:59,119
what city are you in i'm a on a in a

3051
01:45:04,950 --> 01:45:00,960
suburb near boston

3052
01:45:06,709 --> 01:45:04,960
okay so it's cold oh yeah i go out

3053
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:06,719
in any weather whether it's snows

3054
01:45:15,030 --> 01:45:13,109
whether it's freezing i you know i it's

3055
01:45:16,229 --> 01:45:15,040
just an aspect of nature that i enjoy i

3056
01:45:17,830 --> 01:45:16,239
enjoy going i i

3057
01:45:20,070 --> 01:45:17,840
enjoy very much being in the company of

3058
01:45:22,070 --> 01:45:20,080
nature rather than and i don't regard

3059
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:22,080
people or my colleagues in particular as

3060
01:45:25,910 --> 01:45:23,840
part of nature because

3061
01:45:27,990 --> 01:45:25,920
nature is always gracious you know you

3062
01:45:30,470 --> 01:45:28,000
always learn something it's

3063
01:45:31,990 --> 01:45:30,480
i always enjoy nature i grew up on a

3064
01:45:34,790 --> 01:45:32,000
farm

3065
01:45:36,149 --> 01:45:34,800
so that my day starts at 5am and i

3066
01:45:39,830 --> 01:45:36,159
should say over

3067
01:45:42,070 --> 01:45:39,840
the the months of january february and

3068
01:45:44,070 --> 01:45:42,080
half of march

3069
01:45:45,350 --> 01:45:44,080
i would have back-to-back interviews

3070
01:45:48,790 --> 01:45:45,360
from 8 a.m until

3071
01:45:49,590 --> 01:45:48,800
7 00 p.m there were about 450 of them

3072
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:49,600
all together

3073
01:45:55,430 --> 01:45:52,880
it was a huge huge uh

3074
01:45:57,189 --> 01:45:55,440
exhausting marathon that i had to be

3075
01:45:58,149 --> 01:45:57,199
engaged in just because of the interest

3076
01:46:01,270 --> 01:45:58,159
in my book

3077
01:46:01,990 --> 01:46:01,280
but that's very untypical because by now

3078
01:46:03,910 --> 01:46:02,000
it sort of

3079
01:46:06,070 --> 01:46:03,920
is fading away i mean the book is

3080
01:46:10,070 --> 01:46:06,080
already out for two months now

3081
01:46:11,109 --> 01:46:10,080
um and then uh by now i'm getting back

3082
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:11,119
to my

3083
01:46:15,189 --> 01:46:13,119
regular routine which is writing papers

3084
01:46:17,910 --> 01:46:15,199
and and commentaries so

3085
01:46:19,030 --> 01:46:17,920
i should say the past 12 months were the

3086
01:46:21,669 --> 01:46:19,040
most productive

3087
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:21,679
in my scientific career because i didn't

3088
01:46:25,669 --> 01:46:23,040
have to drive to work

3089
01:46:26,070 --> 01:46:25,679
i didn't have people getting into my

3090
01:46:29,189 --> 01:46:26,080
office

3091
01:46:32,390 --> 01:46:29,199
uninvited i didn't have the

3092
01:46:33,510 --> 01:46:32,400
administrative uh distractions that i

3093
01:46:35,510 --> 01:46:33,520
usually have

3094
01:46:37,430 --> 01:46:35,520
and so i could focus on creative work

3095
01:46:41,109 --> 01:46:37,440
and i wrote of the order of

3096
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:41,119
46 scientific papers and

3097
01:46:44,550 --> 01:46:41,850
52

3098
01:46:46,229 --> 01:46:44,560
[Music]

3099
01:46:48,149 --> 01:46:46,239
commentaries mostly in scientific

3100
01:46:50,229 --> 01:46:48,159
american and then

3101
01:46:51,510 --> 01:46:50,239
a couple of books one of them is the one

3102
01:46:53,189 --> 01:46:51,520
that was published two months ago and

3103
01:46:53,669 --> 01:46:53,199
there is another one a textbook coming

3104
01:46:57,109 --> 01:46:53,679
out

3105
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:57,119
cosmos

3106
01:47:01,590 --> 01:46:59,360
so it has been a very productive time

3107
01:47:01,990 --> 01:47:01,600
and you know frankly i can continue like

3108
01:47:05,109 --> 01:47:02,000
that

3109
01:47:06,470 --> 01:47:05,119
um you know for the next for the next

3110
01:47:08,550 --> 01:47:06,480
few years

3111
01:47:10,629 --> 01:47:08,560
uh without the problem that there is

3112
01:47:14,070 --> 01:47:10,639
always something interesting to work on

3113
01:47:16,229 --> 01:47:14,080
um and i enjoy the creative work for

3114
01:47:18,149 --> 01:47:16,239
i used to do leadership positions just

3115
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:18,159
as a service to the community because at

3116
01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:18,960
some point i

3117
01:47:22,709 --> 01:47:20,800
realized that other people are not doing

3118
01:47:24,950 --> 01:47:22,719
their job properly when they are leading

3119
01:47:26,070 --> 01:47:24,960
a department or doing something else

3120
01:47:27,830 --> 01:47:26,080
sharing a committee

3121
01:47:29,990 --> 01:47:27,840
so i thought you know i should do it

3122
01:47:31,669 --> 01:47:30,000
just to make sure that things are done

3123
01:47:33,270 --> 01:47:31,679
according to the government the the

3124
01:47:33,830 --> 01:47:33,280
proper guiding principles what were they

3125
01:47:36,149 --> 01:47:33,840
doing

3126
01:47:38,070 --> 01:47:36,159
and what did you do that corrected it

3127
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:38,080
many times they would they state

3128
01:47:43,590 --> 01:47:41,360
that you know the right ideas but

3129
01:47:44,790 --> 01:47:43,600
they would not really accomplish them in

3130
01:47:46,790 --> 01:47:44,800
practice and

3131
01:47:48,390 --> 01:47:46,800
that was a puzzle to me because i could

3132
01:47:49,030 --> 01:47:48,400
always see what needs to be done you

3133
01:47:51,510 --> 01:47:49,040
know in order

3134
01:47:52,149 --> 01:47:51,520
i giving a specific example no because

3135
01:47:54,790 --> 01:47:52,159
that was of

3136
01:47:55,510 --> 01:47:54,800
that will offend some people uh okay you

3137
01:47:57,590 --> 01:47:55,520
can be vegan

3138
01:47:58,790 --> 01:47:57,600
sorry give an example you can just

3139
01:47:59,590 --> 01:47:58,800
change it because i don't understand

3140
01:48:02,070 --> 01:47:59,600
what you mean by

3141
01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:02,080
what i mean you know like for example

3142
01:48:07,350 --> 01:48:03,760
when i became department chair

3143
01:48:08,870 --> 01:48:07,360
in 2011 i i continued three terms

3144
01:48:10,470 --> 01:48:08,880
that was the longest service in the

3145
01:48:11,990 --> 01:48:10,480
history of the department

3146
01:48:14,310 --> 01:48:12,000
i was the longest-serving department

3147
01:48:17,030 --> 01:48:14,320
chair um and then

3148
01:48:18,709 --> 01:48:17,040
one thing from the beginning was that i

3149
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:18,719
was always straightforward with people i

3150
01:48:22,070 --> 01:48:19,920
would tell them

3151
01:48:24,149 --> 01:48:22,080
the situation as is right i never

3152
01:48:25,350 --> 01:48:24,159
manipulate people i never hide things

3153
01:48:26,950 --> 01:48:25,360
from them

3154
01:48:29,189 --> 01:48:26,960
and you might think that that's a

3155
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:29,199
negative politically because

3156
01:48:32,870 --> 01:48:30,960
very often in politics you have to

3157
01:48:35,030 --> 01:48:32,880
maneuver in a way that would

3158
01:48:36,310 --> 01:48:35,040
people would not know exactly what is

3159
01:48:39,430 --> 01:48:36,320
going on

3160
01:48:41,350 --> 01:48:39,440
but i found it to be a i didn't

3161
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:41,360
care so much because i said you know if

3162
01:48:45,990 --> 01:48:43,360
if i give up on my

3163
01:48:47,590 --> 01:48:46,000
service i would go back to to research

3164
01:48:48,709 --> 01:48:47,600
and i'll be happy at that i'm doing the

3165
01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:48,719
service

3166
01:48:51,750 --> 01:48:50,639
uh you know just in order to serve the

3167
01:48:53,270 --> 01:48:51,760
community and

3168
01:48:55,270 --> 01:48:53,280
uh so i was straightforward and it

3169
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:55,280
turned out to be a great

3170
01:49:00,149 --> 01:48:58,159
asset because people never suspected me

3171
01:49:02,950 --> 01:49:00,159
doing things behind their back and

3172
01:49:03,750 --> 01:49:02,960
they always trusted my dealings with

3173
01:49:05,750 --> 01:49:03,760
things and

3174
01:49:07,430 --> 01:49:05,760
and then i i put an important item to

3175
01:49:09,510 --> 01:49:07,440
promote

3176
01:49:11,510 --> 01:49:09,520
minorities and women in the department

3177
01:49:13,910 --> 01:49:11,520
and you know i hired

3178
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:13,920
in that direction and there was not much

3179
01:49:17,990 --> 01:49:14,880
resistance

3180
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:18,000
uh from my colleagues to that and uh so

3181
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:18,560
i

3182
01:49:29,830 --> 01:49:26,400
uh so you know transparency

3183
01:49:33,189 --> 01:49:29,840
uh people from underprivileged

3184
01:49:36,870 --> 01:49:35,350
have the proper training so that they

3185
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:36,880
can become leaders

3186
01:49:40,070 --> 01:49:38,159
you know these are the kinds of

3187
01:49:40,629 --> 01:49:40,080
principles that i felt strongly about

3188
01:49:45,030 --> 01:49:40,639
and

3189
01:49:47,669 --> 01:49:45,040
didn't feel were promoted enough

3190
01:49:49,189 --> 01:49:47,679
uh but now you know that i finished my

3191
01:49:53,510 --> 01:49:49,199
third term and

3192
01:49:56,550 --> 01:49:53,520
just um you know in july 2020

3193
01:49:57,589 --> 01:49:56,560
then i can go back to doing creative

3194
01:50:00,709 --> 01:49:57,599
work and

3195
01:50:03,189 --> 01:50:00,719
that's what i enjoy the most you wrote

3196
01:50:07,030 --> 01:50:03,199
this book while you were the chair

3197
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:07,040
the book was yes um that's right

3198
01:50:14,629 --> 01:50:10,080
you were a productive man well i

3199
01:50:16,550 --> 01:50:14,639
i i i i'm a no-nonsense kind of

3200
01:50:20,790 --> 01:50:16,560
person in the sense that you know when i

3201
01:50:23,990 --> 01:50:22,950
i work most of the day how do you

3202
01:50:25,430 --> 01:50:24,000
balance that with

3203
01:50:26,790 --> 01:50:25,440
spending time with your wife and i'm not

3204
01:50:27,669 --> 01:50:26,800
sure if you have kids but whatever your

3205
01:50:31,189 --> 01:50:27,679
personal life

3206
01:50:33,589 --> 01:50:31,199
i have two daughters uh yeah i mean

3207
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:33,599
uh i do spend time with them but but one

3208
01:50:38,629 --> 01:50:36,320
of them is 15 the other one is 19 and

3209
01:50:39,589 --> 01:50:38,639
um they are sort of independent by now

3210
01:50:42,229 --> 01:50:39,599
the the two

3211
01:50:44,629 --> 01:50:42,239
i'm surrounded by uh three wonderful

3212
01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:44,639
women that were the muses for my

3213
01:50:50,390 --> 01:50:47,920
book uh and they support me

3214
01:50:52,390 --> 01:50:50,400
in a lot of different ways provide the

3215
01:50:55,830 --> 01:50:52,400
right balance for my life so

3216
01:50:59,510 --> 01:50:55,840
i'm sort of at this point in my life i'm

3217
01:51:00,870 --> 01:50:59,520
self-sustained and can do creative work

3218
01:51:03,589 --> 01:51:00,880
you know that's the the

3219
01:51:04,550 --> 01:51:03,599
the best you can hope for that you don't

3220
01:51:08,310 --> 01:51:04,560
depend on

3221
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:08,320
other people that have agendas that are

3222
01:51:11,270 --> 01:51:09,920
not necessarily aligned with your

3223
01:51:14,070 --> 01:51:11,280
principles

3224
01:51:16,390 --> 01:51:14,080
um so that that's a good place to be in

3225
01:51:18,229 --> 01:51:16,400
and i'm very happy to be in that place

3226
01:51:20,149 --> 01:51:18,239
when you were doing podcasts for 11

3227
01:51:22,709 --> 01:51:20,159
hours a day back

3228
01:51:24,310 --> 01:51:22,719
a couple months ago including now even

3229
01:51:25,669 --> 01:51:24,320
why do you say that you had to do it

3230
01:51:26,790 --> 01:51:25,679
your publisher pushed you to do it or

3231
01:51:29,189 --> 01:51:26,800
you wanted no no

3232
01:51:31,189 --> 01:51:29,199
i felt that it's a platform that allows

3233
01:51:33,669 --> 01:51:31,199
me to communicate what i believe in

3234
01:51:34,709 --> 01:51:33,679
to the public had nothing to do some

3235
01:51:37,669 --> 01:51:34,719
people argue that

3236
01:51:38,390 --> 01:51:37,679
maybe i'm doing it to sell my book i

3237
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:38,400
told my

3238
01:51:41,669 --> 01:51:40,560
my publicist that it's not for that

3239
01:51:43,430 --> 01:51:41,679
purpose that i'm

3240
01:51:45,510 --> 01:51:43,440
doing it to convey a message the

3241
01:51:46,149 --> 01:51:45,520
publicist was saying good job avi and i

3242
01:51:48,229 --> 01:51:46,159
said

3243
01:51:50,070 --> 01:51:48,239
i'm not trying to sell my book even so

3244
01:51:51,910 --> 01:51:50,080
when the book became a bestseller that

3245
01:51:53,830 --> 01:51:51,920
was not my objective at all i

3246
01:51:55,669 --> 01:51:53,840
i wouldn't care less if you know if it

3247
01:51:56,790 --> 01:51:55,679
sold just a few hundred copies and

3248
01:51:59,189 --> 01:51:56,800
that's it and

3249
01:52:01,750 --> 01:51:59,199
what i would like to communicate is a

3250
01:52:04,470 --> 01:52:01,760
message to the public and i communicate

3251
01:52:05,830 --> 01:52:04,480
through my book and through these

3252
01:52:08,950 --> 01:52:05,840
appearances and

3253
01:52:10,790 --> 01:52:08,960
and it got them huge attention from from

3254
01:52:13,910 --> 01:52:10,800
the public i should say you know like

3255
01:52:16,950 --> 01:52:13,920
there was a advice

3256
01:52:18,229 --> 01:52:16,960
video that received the one and a half

3257
01:52:21,350 --> 01:52:18,239
million views within

3258
01:52:24,950 --> 01:52:21,360
a week and a half and you know

3259
01:52:29,189 --> 01:52:24,960
there was of course the interviews with

3260
01:52:36,709 --> 01:52:33,270
uh and some other people got a huge um

3261
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:36,719
amount of attention so so in that sense

3262
01:52:40,070 --> 01:52:39,360
i i did bring my message to the public

3263
01:52:42,070 --> 01:52:40,080
um

3264
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:42,080
and that's what i wanted and then now i

3265
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:43,440
can move on and

3266
01:52:47,830 --> 01:52:46,320
and you know write additional books do

3267
01:52:49,350 --> 01:52:47,840
the views make you feel happy do you

3268
01:52:50,790 --> 01:52:49,360
feel giddy do you share the news with

3269
01:52:52,390 --> 01:52:50,800
your wife like look this got a million

3270
01:52:56,070 --> 01:52:52,400
views or do you read the comments

3271
01:52:59,350 --> 01:52:56,080
how do you view your own appearances um

3272
01:53:00,709 --> 01:52:59,360
i i let the publicist look into that um

3273
01:53:02,470 --> 01:53:00,719
and and there were of course other

3274
01:53:06,790 --> 01:53:02,480
opportunities that were opened up

3275
01:53:10,830 --> 01:53:06,800
um that involved uh documentaries or

3276
01:53:15,189 --> 01:53:10,840
or films and there were of other

3277
01:53:19,109 --> 01:53:15,199
25 filmmakers and producers that

3278
01:53:22,870 --> 01:53:19,119
approached us as a result

3279
01:53:24,390 --> 01:53:22,880
but we should see if anything comes out

3280
01:53:25,990 --> 01:53:24,400
congratulations that's not easy as a

3281
01:53:28,709 --> 01:53:26,000
filmmaker i know that that's not

3282
01:53:31,750 --> 01:53:28,719
a that's not something to be sneezed at

3283
01:53:33,350 --> 01:53:31,760
so 20 years ago 2001 you were married

3284
01:53:34,790 --> 01:53:33,360
and your wife said don't go on social

3285
01:53:37,430 --> 01:53:34,800
media how the heck does she know about

3286
01:53:40,149 --> 01:53:37,440
social media in 2001

3287
01:53:41,669 --> 01:53:40,159
yeah because well back then um there

3288
01:53:45,189 --> 01:53:41,679
were some versions of it

3289
01:53:48,470 --> 01:53:45,199
and then uh myspace i'm assuming

3290
01:53:52,149 --> 01:53:48,480
yeah yeah myspace i i forgot but

3291
01:53:54,950 --> 01:53:52,159
you know i usually i do not deviate if i

3292
01:53:55,750 --> 01:53:54,960
agree to something and i maintained the

3293
01:53:58,470 --> 01:53:55,760
course and

3294
01:53:59,669 --> 01:53:58,480
when facebook appeared and twitter and

3295
01:54:02,870 --> 01:53:59,679
so forth i

3296
01:54:04,870 --> 01:54:02,880
kept my promise to her and

3297
01:54:07,510 --> 01:54:04,880
how attractive you were and how much

3298
01:54:10,149 --> 01:54:07,520
girls will be messaging you wasn't about

3299
01:54:12,310 --> 01:54:10,159
keeping you that car that's an

3300
01:54:14,709 --> 01:54:12,320
interesting insight i i wouldn't um

3301
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:14,719
yeah perhaps she was thinking about that

3302
01:54:19,910 --> 01:54:17,760
yeah i i don't know exactly why but then

3303
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:19,920
i'm grateful for working out it worked

3304
01:54:24,709 --> 01:54:20,960
out in the sense that

3305
01:54:25,750 --> 01:54:24,719
it kept me honest and uh independent of

3306
01:54:27,910 --> 01:54:25,760
others

3307
01:54:29,510 --> 01:54:27,920
okay barfi man again his also his name

3308
01:54:31,189 --> 01:54:29,520
is also ryan collins he said

3309
01:54:33,189 --> 01:54:31,199
can you ask him about virtual black

3310
01:54:34,870 --> 01:54:33,199
holes and spin network evolution

3311
01:54:37,109 --> 01:54:34,880
how might a superposition of spin

3312
01:54:40,470 --> 01:54:37,119
network evolutions brackets spin foams

3313
01:54:40,480 --> 01:54:43,910
um

3314
01:54:49,430 --> 01:54:47,109
well we so again the structure of space

3315
01:54:53,189 --> 01:54:49,440
and time you know is a matter of

3316
01:54:54,550 --> 01:54:53,199
the the unified theory of quantum

3317
01:54:56,229 --> 01:54:54,560
gravity which we don't have at the

3318
01:54:58,229 --> 01:54:56,239
moment so

3319
01:55:00,310 --> 01:54:58,239
john wheeler was a physicist who thought

3320
01:55:03,750 --> 01:55:00,320
about the space-time foam

3321
01:55:06,149 --> 01:55:03,760
as the way that space and time appear

3322
01:55:07,510 --> 01:55:06,159
on very tiny scales that's not the way

3323
01:55:10,709 --> 01:55:07,520
that string theory thinks

3324
01:55:12,790 --> 01:55:10,719
of it right now and um there are all

3325
01:55:16,229 --> 01:55:12,800
these extra dimensions and

3326
01:55:17,830 --> 01:55:16,239
uh so i would say the verdict is still

3327
01:55:21,189 --> 01:55:17,840
out as to what's going on

3328
01:55:24,310 --> 01:55:21,199
with space and time and let's just

3329
01:55:26,629 --> 01:55:24,320
keep an open mind jeff b says

3330
01:55:29,430 --> 01:55:26,639
number one have they confirmed yet if

3331
01:55:31,750 --> 01:55:29,440
blc1 narrow band radio signal

3332
01:55:32,870 --> 01:55:31,760
detected in december 2020 by the parks

3333
01:55:35,430 --> 01:55:32,880
radio telescope

3334
01:55:36,790 --> 01:55:35,440
hopefully you know about this came from

3335
01:55:39,030 --> 01:55:36,800
proxima centauri

3336
01:55:41,990 --> 01:55:39,040
or was it just earth-based local

3337
01:55:46,870 --> 01:55:44,310
that's an excellent question and most

3338
01:55:49,910 --> 01:55:46,880
likely it's earth-based

3339
01:55:51,669 --> 01:55:49,920
the reason i say that is because the

3340
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:51,679
frequency was very steady

3341
01:55:56,310 --> 01:55:54,000
didn't really drift much and it was a

3342
01:55:59,030 --> 01:55:56,320
very narrow band of frequencies that was

3343
01:56:00,950 --> 01:55:59,040
detected and

3344
01:56:02,149 --> 01:56:00,960
if it came if it were to come from a

3345
01:56:04,950 --> 01:56:02,159
habitable

3346
01:56:06,390 --> 01:56:04,960
uh planet around proxima centauri then

3347
01:56:08,149 --> 01:56:06,400
you would see some drift in the

3348
01:56:09,030 --> 01:56:08,159
frequency because of the motion of that

3349
01:56:12,149 --> 01:56:09,040
planet

3350
01:56:13,669 --> 01:56:12,159
well beyond the the limits uh

3351
01:56:16,229 --> 01:56:13,679
but of course it could have come from a

3352
01:56:20,229 --> 01:56:16,239
planet not in the habitable zone

3353
01:56:22,950 --> 01:56:20,239
um based on the

3354
01:56:24,310 --> 01:56:22,960
the fact that it was one telescope in

3355
01:56:26,550 --> 01:56:24,320
australia i think we should be very

3356
01:56:29,350 --> 01:56:26,560
suspicious because the same telescope

3357
01:56:30,709 --> 01:56:29,360
reported the fast radio burst repeating

3358
01:56:33,990 --> 01:56:30,719
fast radio burst

3359
01:56:36,149 --> 01:56:34,000
a few years ago that ended up being the

3360
01:56:37,750 --> 01:56:36,159
uh that they found that it comes only

3361
01:56:42,149 --> 01:56:37,760
during lunch time and

3362
01:56:43,910 --> 01:56:42,159
uh then realized that it's the door of a

3363
01:56:46,470 --> 01:56:43,920
microwave oven that was opened

3364
01:56:49,030 --> 01:56:46,480
prematurely right right

3365
01:56:50,470 --> 01:56:49,040
so i would say there is a like high

3366
01:56:52,950 --> 01:56:50,480
likelihood that

3367
01:56:54,550 --> 01:56:52,960
it's it's local um and the only way to

3368
01:56:56,070 --> 01:56:54,560
find out is to have

3369
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:56,080
another observatory at a different

3370
01:57:00,310 --> 01:56:58,320
location finding the same source so

3371
01:57:02,709 --> 01:57:00,320
we really need the confirmation before

3372
01:57:06,229 --> 01:57:02,719
we assume that it is

3373
01:57:08,070 --> 01:57:06,239
uh associated with proxima centauri

3374
01:57:09,430 --> 01:57:08,080
rabbit skywalker says i really would

3375
01:57:10,070 --> 01:57:09,440
like to hear his opinion about the

3376
01:57:12,149 --> 01:57:10,080
claims

3377
01:57:13,189 --> 01:57:12,159
from former israeli director of the

3378
01:57:15,990 --> 01:57:13,199
space program

3379
01:57:17,270 --> 01:57:16,000
ham ashad brought forward you must have

3380
01:57:18,629 --> 01:57:17,280
heard about it he must have heard about

3381
01:57:21,350 --> 01:57:18,639
it referring to

3382
01:57:22,629 --> 01:57:21,360
you and i wonder what avi thinks about

3383
01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:22,639
this story

3384
01:57:27,430 --> 01:57:25,360
yeah so my reply to that is he didn't

3385
01:57:29,350 --> 01:57:27,440
really provide any evidence and that

3386
01:57:30,870 --> 01:57:29,360
goes back to what we discussed before

3387
01:57:33,910 --> 01:57:30,880
that uh

3388
01:57:36,790 --> 01:57:33,920
if you don't have a document supporting

3389
01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:36,800
uh your claim or or some other type of

3390
01:57:41,510 --> 01:57:38,960
evidence then

3391
01:57:43,510 --> 01:57:41,520
to me it sounds like no journalist

3392
01:57:45,189 --> 01:57:43,520
should cover that story because

3393
01:57:47,270 --> 01:57:45,199
otherwise you create a lot of noise in

3394
01:57:48,470 --> 01:57:47,280
the system without much signal

3395
01:57:50,310 --> 01:57:48,480
about there being evidence there's

3396
01:57:52,070 --> 01:57:50,320
someone named kevin knuth i don't

3397
01:57:53,350 --> 01:57:52,080
or kevin knuth i don't know if you've

3398
01:57:54,149 --> 01:57:53,360
heard of him he's a physicist from

3399
01:57:55,669 --> 01:57:54,159
albany

3400
01:57:57,189 --> 01:57:55,679
you've heard of him yes definitely okay

3401
01:57:58,390 --> 01:57:57,199
well i'm speaking to him in a few hours

3402
01:57:59,669 --> 01:57:58,400
just for the people listening to i'm

3403
01:58:01,510 --> 01:57:59,679
speaking to him in a few hours

3404
01:58:02,709 --> 01:58:01,520
he says that he's analyzed some of the

3405
01:58:04,550 --> 01:58:02,719
data of the

3406
01:58:06,470 --> 01:58:04,560
ufos or uaps i believe they're called

3407
01:58:08,550 --> 01:58:06,480
now and he has showed that

3408
01:58:09,830 --> 01:58:08,560
through analysis the amount of

3409
01:58:11,350 --> 01:58:09,840
acceleration is

3410
01:58:13,109 --> 01:58:11,360
incomparable to anything that we can

3411
01:58:14,790 --> 01:58:13,119
produce and it's

3412
01:58:16,790 --> 01:58:14,800
well i guess you can take that as

3413
01:58:17,830 --> 01:58:16,800
evidence

3414
01:58:20,390 --> 01:58:17,840
what do you think about that have you

3415
01:58:22,870 --> 01:58:20,400
seen that paper of his so

3416
01:58:23,669 --> 01:58:22,880
anything to do with unidentifying flying

3417
01:58:27,189 --> 01:58:23,679
objects

3418
01:58:30,790 --> 01:58:27,199
or aerial phenomena my take on those

3419
01:58:34,149 --> 01:58:30,800
is simple that we should deploy

3420
01:58:36,470 --> 01:58:34,159
state-of-the-art instruments cameras or

3421
01:58:37,830 --> 01:58:36,480
audio sensors in the same locations and

3422
01:58:39,750 --> 01:58:37,840
try to collect data just like a

3423
01:58:41,669 --> 01:58:39,760
scientific experiment

3424
01:58:43,910 --> 01:58:41,679
rather than rely on instruments that

3425
01:58:47,030 --> 01:58:43,920
were not optimized for that purpose that

3426
01:58:49,430 --> 01:58:47,040
you know pilots have access to and

3427
01:58:50,390 --> 01:58:49,440
or rely on reports that came from many

3428
01:58:53,910 --> 01:58:50,400
years ago that

3429
01:58:54,790 --> 01:58:53,920
we cannot really check um and so i think

3430
01:58:58,149 --> 01:58:54,800
that

3431
01:59:01,589 --> 01:58:58,159
all the ufo and uap supporters

3432
01:59:04,709 --> 01:59:01,599
should fund a scientific mission

3433
01:59:06,550 --> 01:59:04,719
experiment to monitor the earth

3434
01:59:08,390 --> 01:59:06,560
yeah monitor those locations if you

3435
01:59:10,070 --> 01:59:08,400
think that they are and basically if we

3436
01:59:11,510 --> 01:59:10,080
see anything unusual

3437
01:59:14,070 --> 01:59:11,520
it will be documented in a

3438
01:59:17,669 --> 01:59:14,080
scientifically credible way

3439
01:59:19,589 --> 01:59:17,679
rather than rely on those unoptimized

3440
01:59:21,189 --> 01:59:19,599
reports that you know the images are

3441
01:59:22,950 --> 01:59:21,199
always fuzzy it could be something in

3442
01:59:25,109 --> 01:59:22,960
the instrument it could be

3443
01:59:26,390 --> 01:59:25,119
something else in the sky that is an

3444
01:59:29,589 --> 01:59:26,400
optical illusion

3445
01:59:31,270 --> 01:59:29,599
could be many things so um i would

3446
01:59:32,390 --> 01:59:31,280
highly recommend doing a scientific

3447
01:59:34,070 --> 01:59:32,400
credible scientific

3448
01:59:36,470 --> 01:59:34,080
experiment and you know it shouldn't be

3449
01:59:39,030 --> 01:59:36,480
too expensive and it would save us

3450
01:59:39,589 --> 01:59:39,040
a lot of time instead of discussing it

3451
01:59:42,709 --> 01:59:39,599
let's just

3452
01:59:45,030 --> 01:59:42,719
let we should let the evidence

3453
01:59:46,709 --> 01:59:45,040
dictate yes of course of course i know

3454
01:59:48,390 --> 01:59:46,719
you got to go how did but how can we do

3455
01:59:50,149 --> 01:59:48,400
that because i imagine that the ufos are

3456
01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:50,159
so small and they're so sporadic

3457
01:59:53,830 --> 01:59:52,320
that to monitor the entire earth is not

3458
01:59:55,510 --> 01:59:53,840
cheap so how can

3459
01:59:57,510 --> 01:59:55,520
conceivably that be done you don't need

3460
01:59:59,910 --> 01:59:57,520
the entire earth you can just do it

3461
02:00:01,910 --> 01:59:59,920
in the spots where detections were

3462
02:00:03,589 --> 02:00:01,920
reported and

3463
02:00:05,830 --> 02:00:03,599
nowadays we have technologies that

3464
02:00:09,109 --> 02:00:05,840
didn't exist decades ago and

3465
02:00:10,790 --> 02:00:09,119
uh we should you know it's it should not

3466
02:00:12,709 --> 02:00:10,800
be too expensive that

3467
02:00:13,910 --> 02:00:12,719
i'm sure that at the level of tens of

3468
02:00:16,149 --> 02:00:13,920
millions of dollars

3469
02:00:18,070 --> 02:00:16,159
one can do a state-of-the-art experiment

3470
02:00:21,589 --> 02:00:18,080
to check if there is anything unusual

3471
02:00:24,070 --> 02:00:21,599
if we don't see anything unusual then uh

3472
02:00:24,709 --> 02:00:24,080
it must mean that these were artifacts

3473
02:00:28,070 --> 02:00:24,719
of the

3474
02:00:29,669 --> 02:00:28,080
instruments or some illusions amjad

3475
02:00:31,030 --> 02:00:29,679
hussain had a couple questions that i

3476
02:00:32,629 --> 02:00:31,040
wasn't able to get to during the

3477
02:00:34,629 --> 02:00:32,639
interview but i emailed avi

3478
02:00:37,030 --> 02:00:34,639
directly and here's the exchange

3479
02:00:39,790 --> 02:00:37,040
professor avi are there aliens on earth

3480
02:00:41,750 --> 02:00:39,800
living sharing the planet with us in a

3481
02:00:44,070 --> 02:00:41,760
non-electromagnetic realm dimension

3482
02:00:46,629 --> 02:00:44,080
consciousness like dark matter energy

3483
02:00:48,070 --> 02:00:46,639
where we don't know their existence

3484
02:00:50,550 --> 02:00:48,080
and then he had another question number

3485
02:00:52,149 --> 02:00:50,560
two do fundamental particles in nature

3486
02:00:54,149 --> 02:00:52,159
have proto-consciousness

3487
02:00:55,189 --> 02:00:54,159
meaning that an electron feels its own

3488
02:00:57,669 --> 02:00:55,199
intrinsic state

3489
02:00:58,950 --> 02:00:57,679
of charge spin etc does consciousness

3490
02:01:00,870 --> 02:00:58,960
equal existence

3491
02:01:02,070 --> 02:01:00,880
avi replied saying the answers to both

3492
02:01:06,629 --> 02:01:02,080
questions are no

3493
02:01:10,550 --> 02:01:08,950
avi you gotta go thank you so much i

3494
02:01:11,910 --> 02:01:10,560
appreciate your time it was a pleasure

3495
02:01:14,070 --> 02:01:11,920
talking to you

3496
02:01:16,550 --> 02:01:14,080
it was a pleasure to to answer all these

3497
02:01:17,990 --> 02:01:16,560
questions and there were